|Topic Review (Newest First)|
Originally Posted by peribro View Post
|peribro||It's completely, totally and utterly irrelevant what the law in this country does or does not say when it comes to towing a toad on an A-frame in Spain. It is also irrelevant what the DfT says, what European law says and indeed what Spanish law says. The fact is that people get stopped by the police, fined and made to decouple. Isn't that the only knowledge that is relevant? It's then up to each person what they do or do not do about it.|
Originally Posted by namder View Post
I cannot see anything in your previous post which says 'A'-frames are not legal in 'England and Wales', assuming that is what you are referring to by 'this country', since you state you live in N. Wales. A principle of English Law is that anything is legal unless forbidden by Statute or under a decison of a Court of Law which bids a lower Court. i do not see anything in your previous post indicating to anything making 'A;0frames illegal, providing they adhere to braking, lighting and signage regulations.
As for the assertion by the Dft, if they did make that asssertion, about non-application of the 'Vienna Convention' to subsequent rules, applying that thinking would make all Construction and Use legislation void across boundaries, equally Driving Licences issued under legislation after 1948.
It is really very very simple
A Frames are definitely NOT illegal in Spain........ There it is, simple.
What IS illegal though is towing one motorised vehicle with another. Despite country or origin regarding the toad as a trailer (to satisfy UK regs) cannot become a trailer as there is still a working drivable car in place, and no, removing a component will not get you round the problem. You need to be a registered recovery/breakdown company to tow any vehicle behind another.
This law also applies in Germany and Portugal, but they turn a blind eye to it, there again, they don't need the cash that Spain so desperately needs.
It's not worth it. First fine is usually 40 euro, second can be as much as 8000 with car impounded until paid in full.
As an ex A Framer who used to tow around all of Europe including Spain, I now only use a trailer. I have many friends in the Auto-Trail Owners' Club who have been stopped and fined over the last two years. (All of whom were fined 40 euro and made to unhitch).
I must admit, it does get quite boring with repeated A Frame threads
The way that I look at it, is that we are guests in any Country we visit, and as such, we should respect their laws and ways.
Similarly, as we ask, or want visitors to our own Country, to respect our values!
If we can't do this, then we have no right to complain about visitors to Blighty.
I speak, having been pulled over for numerous roadside traffic controls during my International Trucking days, generally without problems!
Originally Posted by nicholsong View Post
But they are not legal in this country. See my earlier post.
Originally Posted by javea View Post
I think that nobody is disputing your advice about what the Spanish law currently says.
I think the argument is about whether the Spanish law actually conflicts with the principle that if a vehicle is legal in its country of registration it is legal throughout Europe.
A similar problem has existed for some time in Poland, where the government has been refusing for years to re-register RHD cars. The Poles lost at the European Court and are in the process of changing the law.
I suspect that if anyone challenged the Spanish applying the no 'A'-frame law to a British vehicle their government might also lose at the European Court.
Of course, that as yet has not happened, so meanwhile people are at the mercy of the Franco-style Guardia - outside towns. That in itself is a contradiction, if the local police are not enforcing the same law.
Originally Posted by neilmac View Post
This is from my post on a rival site:
From the current C&CC magazine:
"Club members are being advised not to use an A-frame to tow a car in Europe, following guidance from the DfT.
The 1968 Vienna convention on road traffic says a citizen of one state may use a vehicle in another state as long as it is legal in his or her own country. However, the DfT says the assumed protections offered by the Treaty do not cover A-frames because they post-date it and are therefore outside its scope.
The Club's Technical Team has been told the UK doesn't intend to implement recent changes to EU light-trailer brakes regulations. This means that A-frames will remain acceptable within the UK.
Following this clarification, the Club strongly recommends that if members wish to tow a car behind a motorhome in mainland Europe then it must be on a trailer."
Hope this helps
|sallylillian||I think the question that Adgy was simply asking was who on this immense forum has been stopped and fined themselves. Not, I know a geezer wot was fined xxxx Euros.factually for all our benefit? As for breaking the traffic laws, A framing is only one, there are many others which do not attract so many emotional responses. For me the law is clear and for the avoidance of doubt I tow my car on a trailer. But when you see many A framing in Spain it would be good to census the risk.|
Originally Posted by TheNomad View Post
Like you I am fully aware of Spanish traffic laws having had a house in Spain since 1986 and I just cannot understand why people will not accept that Spain and the UK have different traffic laws.
It has always been illegal to tow a car in Spain - the only people allowed to recover cars are the Grau, you can't just put a tow rope between cars and allow one to tow the other. My car insurance in Spain automatically includes breakdown cover for this very reason.
I am getting to the point of thinking that there is no longer any point in trying to help and advise some people about this topic. They just don't want to see the logic of the law so perhaps we should just let them get on with it and get fined - helps keep our tax bills down!
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