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post #101 of 109 (permalink) Old 08-01-2020, 15:03
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhelm View Post
So Pat you are confirming that the UK still uses single phase 240, 50hz? Europe is using 240 double phase with both wires hot and no ground other that the safety third wire to ground. Always good to learn something new.
Close but not actually true....

The voltage throughout Europe has been standardised since 2003 and has tolerance values which allows some fluctuation.

The actual figure is

230v. -10% +6% which allows for the 240v that has traditionally been found in the U.K. and the 220v found in the EU although even that may not be absolutely accurate.

Some parts of the UK (Islands) have 250v which is still within the tolerance levels, just.

The majority of people in residential properties in the U.K. are on monophase supply. High demand users e.g. Factories, farms etc may be on triple phase which allows greater power consumption without thicker wires being needed. The wiring for triple phase is more complex and may involve different sockets if all three phases are to be used.

In Europe many of the rural properties were once farms using electricity to power heavy machinery e.g. Pumps, saws, mills etc. These properties MAY have triple phase (we do) or monophase.

So the picture becomes even more complex and using triple phase means that the load on each of the three phases should be balanced - we have one master RCD with three linked cutoffs, one for each phase so that if one fails, the others cut off too, there are then three rows of trips, one for each phase and the load on each has to be nearly the same if all switched on at same time.

I can happily supply links to verify this if you are really keen to fall asleep.

Remember Jo Cox and what she stood for.

Any comments above are only MY OPINION and should be read as that.

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post #102 of 109 (permalink) Old 08-01-2020, 15:08
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That's why you sometimes see warning noticed about 400V between outlets.
You can have sockets or lighting circuits on different phases in a building and each is 240V but across 2 circuits it can be 400V!
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post #103 of 109 (permalink) Old 08-01-2020, 15:25
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And just to add confusion to chaos, 400v is commonly found as a supply voltage on the "upstream" side of a transformer - often seen as green painted objects behind metal fences with warning signs all over them......

Remember Jo Cox and what she stood for.

Any comments above are only MY OPINION and should be read as that.

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post #104 of 109 (permalink) Old 08-01-2020, 16:13
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And some American 240v outputs have a centre tapped earth. Fun on an RV where 'earth' is at a potential above earth.?

Ray.

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post #105 of 109 (permalink) Old 08-01-2020, 16:14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raynipper View Post
And some American 240v outputs have a centre tapped earth. Fun on an RV where 'earth' is at a potential above earth.?

Ray.
But don't they ground that centre tap? So you have 2 120V circuits or one 240V circuit for higher current loads.

Pat

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post #106 of 109 (permalink) Old 08-01-2020, 16:29
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Basically yes Pat but I have found a couple of American RVs with their earth or chassis being above earth potential with their generators running. Quite a tingle on the door grab handle depending on the floating earth. Usually less than 50v.

Ray.

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post #107 of 109 (permalink) Old 08-01-2020, 17:15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raynipper View Post
Basically yes Pat but I have found a couple of American RVs with their earth or chassis being above earth potential with their generators running. Quite a tingle on the door grab handle depending on the floating earth. Usually less than 50v.

Ray.
Yes I have a generator and it states it most have an earth rod or valid earth connection before use. Failing to do that and the van chassis is just floating. You then get capacitance and smoothing filters in some kit that will leak some current to earth so you get a floating voltage.

I guess it would be a sensible precaution to have your own earth stake you hook your van to if on sites of unknown earth
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post #108 of 109 (permalink) Old 08-01-2020, 18:37
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Honda specifically say not to....

I asked about that some years ago and was linked to a page in the manual which says in bold and capitals NOT to earth the generator
.....

So, I follow their advice when I (very rarely) use the generator.

Correction,

The CURRENT manual says to consult an electrician and follow local guidance and if attached an earthing rod is connected to the metal frame, the non-metal parts etc.

That is all on PAGE 18 of the current EU1.0kva generator.

Sorry to have posted incorrect information, in future I will have to consult a qualified electrician, local agency having jurisdiction for local codes or an electrical inspector.....

Obviously to do that will delay starting it by at least 3 weeks but I will follow the guidance won't I ..... ?

Remember Jo Cox and what she stood for.

Any comments above are only MY OPINION and should be read as that.

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Last edited by Penquin; 08-01-2020 at 19:05.
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post #109 of 109 (permalink) Old 08-01-2020, 18:58
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There is a safety advantage to not earthing a generator because you can't get a shock off either live.
However if an appliance shorts live to earth you won't blow the fuse. Every earth in the unit is then live!

Honda probably know the generator output may not be enough to blow a fuse anyway and the odds of an equipment failure is slim.

Pat

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