X250 3 litre Comfortmatic - Clutch Slip or Comfortmatic Problem? - Motorhome Forums, Motorhome Discussion, Motorhome Chat

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post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old 06-09-2015, 00:19 Thread Starter
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X250 3 litre Comfortmatic - Clutch Slip or Comfortmatic Problem?

Your advice would be much appreciated please.

My 2008 Fiat X250 3litre comfortmatic 32,000 miles, has inthe last thousand miles or so started to intermittently slip its clutch when accelerating at low revs in 4th to 6th gear. Revs also briefly rise and then fall again after it has automatically changed down to tackle a hill in 3rd to 5th gears. Is this a fault with the clutch or with the comfortmatic gear changing do you think? It has been driven gently (had it from new) but scaled many mountains in the Alps, Norway and Scotland. If its a clutch problem is it likely the dual mass flywheel is also caput?

Any comments please.
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post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old 06-09-2015, 08:02
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From what you have described (Clutch Slipping) yes it will need a new clutch and a duel mass unfortunatly.

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post #3 of 19 (permalink) Old 06-09-2015, 08:40
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I don't understand why it would need a new fly wheel.
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post #4 of 19 (permalink) Old 06-09-2015, 10:10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kev_n_Liz View Post
I don't understand why it would need a new fly wheel.
Simply put the duel mass flywheel has a moving section that reducers vibration when changing gear, consequently it wears and starts to rattle, it would be silly to not replace it when changing the clutch, I have seen them break up when worn and do considerable damage to Bellhousing/ gearbox,
Totally false economy not to change it when the gearbox is out,

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post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old 06-09-2015, 11:23
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My take on Dual mass flywheels is that they are there to cushion your gear change / clutch action with a big spring. It does work, as the gear change on my Honda CRV is the smoothest I have ever encountered. I can see that if your clutch has been slipping for some time and generating a lot of heat then the heat will do damage to the big spring but if that is not the case then you have to do the maths as they are very expensive.
We are not talking like for like but if the clutch were on its way out on my CRV then I would not change the DM unless I had seen or heard signs that there was a problem. If I came across a cheap one though, I would.

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post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old 06-09-2015, 11:26
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Also to add if it has a clutch slave cylinder change it as well it's located inside the bell housing.
That's progress for you.

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post #7 of 19 (permalink) Old 06-09-2015, 13:27
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It sounds to me from the symptoms you describe to be a clutch problem.
Whether you do the job yourself or have it done definitely change all 3 clutch components.
As to the dual mass flywheel there are many compression springs mounted radially within the unit, if you or whoever does the work checks Fiat technical, there are set out tolerances as to what is acceptable radial movement.
If in doubt replace it anyway, a straightforward job when box is out; their purpose is to dampen drive chain resonance, which, as a by product helps to smooth gear changes.


.

John
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post #8 of 19 (permalink) Old 06-09-2015, 16:03
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The purpose of a dual mass flywheel is to prevent premature failure of the drive train.

A modern diesel engine produces a lots of power peaks (multijet engines have FIVE fuel injections per power stroke, yes really) these peaks in power are transmitted down the drive train and, if not damped out, will soon knacker the gearbox. SO...... the makers fit a DMF, which is basically TWO flywheels, one inside the other, between the two are a set of hefty springs set radially (in line with the flywheels rotation) these springs absorb the peaks in power that would otherwise damage the gearbox.

They are not a cheap item (about 700 I think) the biggest single cause of failure is apparently excessive heat. This heat is generated by friction when the vehicle is held on the clutch on a gradient. Its takes VERY little time to build up vast amounts of heat by doing this. The heat gets into the springs and destroys the temper (springyness) of them. There is no cure, the ONLY remedy is (expensive) DMF replacement.

Moral of the tale is that you should only ever hold your Mh on the clutch alone MOMENTARILY and by that I mean one or two seconds ONLY !!! remember if you are holding it on the clutch you are attempting to stop something in the region of 3.5 -4.0 tons sliding down hill !!! That puts a HUGE amount of heat and wear onto/into your clutch.

ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS USE YOUR HANDBRAKE, NEVER EVER EVER YOUR CLUTCH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

From the description at the start of this thread its clutch slip.

I think there is a problem with comfortmatic gearboxes, drivers THINK they are a different kind of (torque converter style)fully automatic epicyclic gearbox (Google search will explain) which you can hold on the throttle on a gradient, when in fact they are actually a robotised fully manual gearbox with a standard friction clutch that is all operated for you, so if you hold it on a hill on the throttle you are actually slipping the clutch all the time, with inevitable consequences.

Andy
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post #9 of 19 (permalink) Old 06-09-2015, 16:32
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Mrplodd is absolutely right, I have one of theses gearboxes on my Hymer and I never ever hold it on the clutch. The latest version of these vehicle now have hill hold which is in my opinion a must for this type of setup.

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post #10 of 19 (permalink) Old 07-09-2015, 06:55
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Just another part to go wrong and richen the manufacturers pockets, we've manged for decades with the springs in the friction plate itself and I've never had any problems, and never had to replace a flywheel, and only a clutch once, not progress to my mind, some of the crap on modern engines doesn't actually justify it's place.
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