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post #11 of 113 (permalink) Old 03-07-2021, 19:44
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I'm wracking my brains trying to remember when it was that I saw the footage of the armed men in fatigues and balaclavas asking for a penny for the Guy.
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post #12 of 113 (permalink) Old 03-07-2021, 20:05
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You need to explain more

I really want to understand it’s so new to me

Nothing like Guy Fawkes

Of course bonfire night has really forgotten Guy Fawkes

So tell me more

Cowering as a kid, well I remember that, it’s what you did in children’s homes as a kid at that time, you cowered , mea culpa and if you didn’t ….. life was difficult

My life was difficult , I wasn’t in to cowering then or now 77 years later

But I’m really in to understanding new things which come into my life

Sandra
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post #13 of 113 (permalink) Old 03-07-2021, 20:06
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Read the link. It's explained there.

Brexiters. It's your sh1t now. Whatever happens nationally and internationally you own it. I wish you luck. I think you're going to need all you can get and then some. Friday 13th December 2019.
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post #14 of 113 (permalink) Old 03-07-2021, 20:09
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I did, but I needed more

Sandra
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post #15 of 113 (permalink) Old 03-07-2021, 20:17
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What's missing? Seems fairly comprehensive to me.


In Northern Ireland, the Eleventh Night or 11th Night refers to the night before the Twelfth of July, a yearly Ulster Protestant celebration. On this night, large towering bonfires are lit in many Protestant/loyalist neighbourhoods in Northern Ireland and are often accompanied by street parties[1] and loyalist marching bands. The bonfires are mostly made up of wooden pallets and tyres, with the Irish tricolour being burnt. The bonfires are lit to celebrate (168 and victory of Protestant king William of Orange over Catholic king James II at the Battle of the Boyne (1690), which began the Protestant Ascendancy in Ireland. The event has been condemned for displays of sectarian or ethnic hatred, anti-social behaviour, and for the damage and pollution caused by the fires. The flag of the Republic of Ireland, Irish nationalist/republican symbols, Catholic symbols, and effigies, are burnt on many bonfires. There have been attempts to make the event more family-friendly and environmentally-friendly. It is also known as "bonfire night", in common with other events in which bonfires are lit.[2][3][4]

Origins
Like The Twelfth, the Eleventh Night bonfires celebrate the Glorious Revolution (168 and victory of Protestant king William of Orange over Catholic king James II in the Williamite-Jacobite War (1689–1691), which began the Protestant Ascendancy in Ireland. When King William landed at Carrickfergus in 1690, his supporters in Ulster lit bonfires to celebrate. Some of those who did not join in the celebrations were attacked by the Williamites.[5] There is also a belief that the bonfires commemorate the lighting of fires on the hills of counties Antrim and Down to help Williamite ships navigate through Belfast Lough at night.[6] Traditionally, both Catholics and Protestants in Ulster had lit bonfires at Midsummer, May Day (Bealtaine) and Halloween (Samhain), which were non-sectarian.[7] In the 18th century it also became a tradition for Ulster Protestants to light bonfires on 11 July to commemorate the Williamite victory, and for Catholics to light bonfires on 14 August to mark the Feast of the Assumption of Mary,[7] although this latter custom largely died out.

Bonfires in Northern Ireland traditionally mark the night before the Twelfth. However, should the Twelfth fall on a Sunday, as it did in 2015, the public holiday is given in lieu on the following Monday. When this situation arises, some bonfires are lit on the Saturday night.

Criticism

Ballycragy bonfire in Antrim. Irish tricolours have been set atop the bonfire and are intended to be burnt. The Ulster Banner and Union Jack are flying from streetlights in the foreground

A large bonfire in Newtownards on 10 July 2009
Sectarianism and violence

A bonfire decked with Irish tricolours to be burnt
Eleventh Night bonfires have involved sectarian and loyalist paramilitary displays. Symbols of Irish nationalism/republicanism (such as the Irish tricolour), and symbols of Catholicism, are often burnt on the bonfires.[1][6] The tricolours on such bonfires are often daubed with sectarian slogans such as "Kill All Taigs" (KAT) or "Kill All Irish" (KAI).[8][9] Effigies, and posters of Irish nationalist election candidates, are also sometimes burnt, which has been condemned as "inciting hatred".[10] More recently, symbols of immigrant communities, especially the large Polish immigrant community, have been burnt on some bonfires. The Polish Association of Northern Ireland, and others, described this as "racist intimidation".[11]

Loyalist paramilitary groups, such as the Ulster Defence Association (UDA) and Ulster Volunteer Force (UVF), have also used Eleventh Night bonfires to hold "shows of strength", which often involve masked gunmen firing volleys of shots into the air.[1]

Another issue that has been raised is drunkenness and alcohol-fuelled violence amongst those attending.[1]

Environmental harm
Eleventh Night bonfires have raised health and safety concerns, as well as environmental ones.[1][12]

Bonfires are often built to be as large as possible. Some have been built near houses and other buildings, which in a few cases caught fire.[13] Roads are often damaged and, according to the BBC, clean-up and repairs made to roads due to bonfire-related damage can "cost thousands of pounds", with some roads needing to be resurfaced.[1]

A major concern that has risen to greater prominence in recent years is the pollution they cause. In some bonfires, despite bans by bodies such as Belfast City Council, tyres are burnt. Tyres produce many toxic chemical compounds when burnt, and therefore pose a major health issue.[1]

Attempts to address the concerns
There have been attempts to make the bonfires more family-friendly and environmentally-friendly. In Belfast, a Bonfire Initiative has been set up. When joining the initiative, the community groups who organize bonfires agree to a number of conditions. A "bonfire committee" must be formed; the gathering of material for burning may only begin on 1 June; only wood can be burnt; and paramilitary flags and emblems must not be displayed at the bonfire site. In 2010, groups who forbore from burning nationalist flags or symbols were awarded an extra £100 funding.[6]

In 2009, Belfast City Council began promoting "beacons" as an environmentally-friendly alternative. It is a pyramid-shaped metal cage filled with willow wood-chips, and set on a base of sand to protect the ground underneath. The willow trees re-grow within a year of being cut down, making the bonfires more environmentally sustainable. By agreeing to use the beacons, the communities qualify for up to £1,500 of funding from Belfast City Council to hold a street party – as long as they do not fly paramilitary flags or burn tyres. Some loyalist communities in Belfast have begun using the beacons. The Orange Order, whilst recognising the importance of bonfires to Protestant culture, have issued calls for the organisers of bonfires not to burn tyres.[14] However, many others oppose the beacon, claiming that it infringes upon their traditions.[1]
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post #16 of 113 (permalink) Old 03-07-2021, 21:11
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I can't understand whether Sandra really has no idea what has gone on in Northern Ireland in our lifetime or is just winding you up.

When she first posted that she had no idea what the photos and bonfires were about I resisted having a go.Pointing out the lengths people go to "preserve their culture" and what can be the consequences of unconscious prejudice and bias.

But I resisted.

@erneboy You have very graciously and patiently posted explanations but still no understanding or is it no wish to understand ?

"But I’m really in to understanding new things which come into my life"...........I really like to think that was the case and then we could all get on with building a better world free of the bigotry and bitterness that the bonfires symbolise..................but that openness doesn't seem to apply to BLM.

And there are many comparisons (I couldn't spell parralles) between the processes........one group with the power who want to retain that power...........but don't understand what they are part of................and how they are being played.

It's all so very very sad
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Peter and Carmel

Spooky travelled with us for 5 years and over 20,000 miles.He died aged 11 and is buried in Delphi in Greece.
Now that's a great age and a great adventure for a rabbit and I think he deserves a mention.

The best things in Life...........................are not Things !!

Life is really, really great …...........sometimes it's a bit sh*t............and then you die !!
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post #17 of 113 (permalink) Old 03-07-2021, 21:42
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Webby you are so boring, so intolerant, so know it all

I get it, we all get it

You will go for me whenever you can

Earnyboy ie a bit specially to you is he?

He struggles to read or understand my posts , but you are there to help him

Webby you are an obnoxious , unpleasant poster , there I’ve said it ,

And those who wish to support you are not far behind

Only me that thinks that ?I don’t think so

You are mean and nasty minded

And attempt to cover it by………..well……maybe……perhaps

But there is a famous saying that maybe you just have ,,,,,,,,a little,,,,, weii you know what I’m………saying, well maybe I’m saying …. Possibally it’s what I’m saying , how small is it?

I won’t ignore you

You are not worth the effort

Sandra
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post #18 of 113 (permalink) Old 03-07-2021, 22:09
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Is it shameful not to have heard of this, because I haven’t either.

I'm Jan
We learn something new every day.
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post #19 of 113 (permalink) Old 03-07-2021, 22:33
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Ok Jan fair enough................It's never shameful but I am surprised as it is such a part of our "British culture".............well try telling them Loyalists its not.

What on earth do we think has been going on in Northern Ireland for the last 100 years.......what was it all about.......did any of us want to know more or try to understand more.

Did all those people die without us asking why......what's going on over there......................I do think that is shameful

And by the way my bonfire is very big and its on fire.......what do I post now............ a devil and a wink...........what nonsense.

Peter and Carmel

Spooky travelled with us for 5 years and over 20,000 miles.He died aged 11 and is buried in Delphi in Greece.
Now that's a great age and a great adventure for a rabbit and I think he deserves a mention.

The best things in Life...........................are not Things !!

Life is really, really great …...........sometimes it's a bit sh*t............and then you die !!
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post #20 of 113 (permalink) Old 04-07-2021, 05:38
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I too had never seen or heard of that particular tradition Jan

Of course I’m aware of Northern Irelands troubled past and present , but not the tradition of building towers or what they symbolised

That’s what Alan has explained and that’s what I was asking about and I certainly was not in any way attempting to wind anybody up, I simply had never seen such a structure before

But it seems it’s enough to get Webby back on his soapbox, and I’m assuming he is not a Loyalist and fails to notice that he too is stirring up dissent and division , I guess he would call it righteous indignation

Of course bonfire night commemorates a historical event,a deep division, it’s origins mostly forgotten now and I doubt many celebrating bonfire night thinks of it as more than a bonfire and fireworks, but I’m guessing some modern day guy fawkes would probably still like to blow up the Houses of Parliament

I was surprised that having such sinister overtones that attempts are being made to make it more “family friendly” which is why I though of bonfire night, and also that the building of such structures are permitted or even tolerated if they stir up such hatred still

I’m assuming to some they are built “ less we forget “ and as an outsider I am in no position to pass judgement

Sandra
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