Help required urgently! Arapahoe brakes - Motorhome Forums, Motorhome Discussion, Motorhome Chat

User Tag List

 3Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-12-2016, 14:51 Thread Starter
Member
 
admiral halsey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Essex
My Motorhome: I drive...Autotrail Arapahoe
Posts: 44
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Help required urgently! Arapahoe brakes

Please can anyone help me here?

I decided to start a new thread for this. Our Arapahoe brakes have locked for the second time this year. We have decided that it is time to look for a new MH. Unfortunately, the MOT is now out of date, without which I am in no position to trade her in. She is taxed, insured and costing lock-up fees, which grieves me as I cannot move her.

So far I have replaced the shoes on the rear axles and replaced three cylinders that were leaking.. However, upon re-bleeding the brakes following the cylinder changes, I find that the wheels have locked again. The bleed was done without the ignition on.

My Garage suggests that the fault lies with the small "bullet" valve, which serves only the rear brakes. I find this difficult to believe, as we only changed this part in the spring of this year and have barely done a thousand miles since. I'm also unsure if we can be sure that the master cylinder is not at fault.

My brother suggest jacking up one side of the van to see if the front wheel is locked as well as the back.

I'm loathe to buy a master cylinder, without being sure that this will rectify the problem. To be honest, I thought that the locked cylinder was the root cause, as this was the wheel that was smoking.

Unfortunately, in the condition she is in, we are unable to move her. This rules out dumping her on the forecourt of our garage and letting them sort her out! We also had a major delay with them earlier in the year as she was in the lock-up and not "in their face", meaning she was not a priority for them.

So, what can I do? Someone on this forum has surely had a similar ordeal?

AH

There's a fine line between uninhibited and asleep!
admiral halsey is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-12-2016, 15:36
Senior Member
 
HurricaneSmith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: East Sussex
My Motorhome: AutoTrail V-Line 635 SE
Posts: 2,478
Thanks: 277
Thanked 117 Times in 114 Posts
Personal Aire
Could it be that your brakes are perfectly fine? If you park up and leave your handbrake on for extended periods, then it could be that they are simply binding, especially if the handbrake has been applied rather firmly.

The solution is to be brave, put your van in gear, and give it a little welly to free them off. In future, consider doing what I do, which is to leave the handbrake off and the vehicle in gear. If on a hill, I would add chocks.



.

John

For lust of knowing what should not be known
We take the Golden Road to..........................
HurricaneSmith is online now  
post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-12-2016, 15:52
Senior Member
 
erneboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Spain + Germany
My Motorhome: Four Winds RV
Posts: 25,113
Thanks: 125
Thanked 422 Times in 398 Posts
Yes, find out which wheels are locked. Not the back I guess since you've had them apart and were able to get the hubs back on and presumably adjusted them and checked that the wheels were turning freely?

In some cars the clutch friction plate could stick to the flywheel if not used for a long time, this may be something of that sort with the pads at the front though I've never heard of that.
erneboy is online now  
 
post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-12-2016, 16:21 Thread Starter
Member
 
admiral halsey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Essex
My Motorhome: I drive...Autotrail Arapahoe
Posts: 44
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanks for the replies.

Despite not getting away, I try to give the old girl a drive at least once a month. She's been stationary since half term, when she was bought back on the low loader. Initially the brakes seemed free, having cooled down.Thus, I was able to park her in her allotted space. Since then, she has had all the wheels off and the engine running, though she hasn't moved again since the initial parking.

The lock-up is on rough, but level ground, so I don't feel the need to yank the handbrake on hard. I'm certain that if the brakes are locked on under any circumstances, she will not budge from standing still. I know, I've tried several times(in both forward and reverse).

Whilst on the A road a few weeks back, I obviously touched the brakes and they failed to release. As I was travelling at 50+ MPH, they cooked, rather than brought me to a stop.

AH

There's a fine line between uninhibited and asleep!
admiral halsey is offline  
post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-12-2016, 16:21
Senior Member
 
flyinghigh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: kent
My Motorhome: Adria vision I707SG
Posts: 304
Thanks: 1
Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts
if the master cylinder is holding on the rear brakes just crack open a rear bleed nipple, if it squirts out and doesn't just dribble then it's likely the master, but i have had a few flexible brake pipes collapse internally that will also cause the rear brakes to bind, admit-tingly that's over a lifetime in the motor trade,
the rear brake compensator valve usually seized fully open causing the rear brakes to lock before the fronts, you can always clamp the flexible brake pipes one at a time to pin point the problem,
cabby, cabby, BillCreer and 1 others like this.

Now reitired thank god , looking forward to flying when the weather is good or motorhoming when its not, just like to get away from it all now I can take it easy.
flyinghigh is offline  
post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-12-2016, 16:32 Thread Starter
Member
 
admiral halsey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Essex
My Motorhome: I drive...Autotrail Arapahoe
Posts: 44
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyinghigh View Post
if the master cylinder is holding on the rear brakes just crack open a rear bleed nipple, if it squirts out and doesn't just dribble then it's likely the master, but i have had a few flexible brake pipes collapse internally that will also cause the rear brakes to bind, admit-tingly that's over a lifetime in the motor trade,
the rear brake compensator valve usually seized fully open causing the rear brakes to lock before the fronts, you can always clamp the flexible brake pipes one at a time to pin point the problem,
My brother and I changed the ALKO valve earlier this year, and fully bled the brakes. I don't recall the strength of the squirting from the bleed nipple. In that instance the ALKO valve replacement seemed to do the trick. I don't recall any concern at that time about the flexible pipe. My brother has had to undo, and re-bleed these connections with regard the replacement cylinders a couple of weeks ago. Again, he expressed no concern about them then.

The odd thing about the ALKO valve, when we replaced it, was that you could see right through it. There didn't appear to be a valve bearing in it. After the fix the old girl seemed just fine and caused no problems in Brittany in the summer.

AH

There's a fine line between uninhibited and asleep!
admiral halsey is offline  
post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-12-2016, 17:05
Senior Member
 
Mrplodd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Weymouth
My Motorhome: A Caravan of all things !!
Posts: 8,740
Thanks: 102
Thanked 469 Times in 394 Posts
You have not specified what make of vehicle your MH is based on which would help people to give you a better answer.

For my part I would suggest that you look under the dash and see if the pushrod that is attached to the brake pedal has any form of adjustment on it. It's possible that the lock nut has come loose allowing the pushrod to extend slightly and thus keeping pressure in the hydraulic system (and keeping the brakes on) Your explanation of the brakes staying on after you applied them tends to point to this possibly being the problem.

As others have said you need to approach this in a logical sequence to identify excatly where the problem lies.

First step is to find out if the problem is on a single wheel, or axle or all of the wheels.

If it's just a single wheel then that's where to problem is. (Wheel cylinder or front caliper seized or, if a rear wheel possibly the handbrake being stuck on)

If it's on ALL the wheels then refer to my first suggestion. The way to check would be to release one of the brake bleed nipples to ensure there is no residual pressure in the hydraulics. If the problem then goes away it's proof that there is pressure being held within the hydraulic lines. Again try the brake pedal push rod adjustment, if it's not that then the master cylinder is starting to look suspect.

Like i said, approach this in a logical sequence and you will soon identify the fault.

I doubt if the problem is particularly difficult to sort out once you know what is causing it and it will certainly be a lot cheaper than changing your MH!

Andy

Its not the destination that matters.

It's who you share the journey with (even if its in a caravan!) I am very fortunate to have Mrs Plodd to share mine with
Mrplodd is offline  
post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-12-2016, 17:14
Senior Member
 
erneboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Spain + Germany
My Motorhome: Four Winds RV
Posts: 25,113
Thanks: 125
Thanked 422 Times in 398 Posts
It may not be the back brakes causing the problem. I've had collapsing innards on flexible pipes before now, as already suggested. Loosen a nipple to see if that's it.

Here's another thought. There's a well known problem with some Brembo callipers which have phenolic pistons. They are made from a cast resin which can absorb moisture from the air and become stuck. Bear in mind that I have no idea who makes the callipers for Fiat. I've never heard of that problem effecting Fiats but it might be worth investigating.

Read the bit about pistons about 1/3 way down the page here http://www.aa1car.com/library/brake_calipers.htm

Unlikely perhaps but you never know. Brembo are Italian and may supply Fiat, or have done at some time, I don't know. Other manufacturers, possibly Fiat may also use phenolic pistons.
erneboy is online now  
post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-12-2016, 17:49 Thread Starter
Member
 
admiral halsey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Essex
My Motorhome: I drive...Autotrail Arapahoe
Posts: 44
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Sorry, we have a Fiat Ducato 2.8 based MH.

We have decided to trade her in because:
she's 16 years old, I don't have the funds to garage her every time she's ill, plus I cannot keep intruding on my brother's good will(he says he's getting to old to be doing mechanics!)

She is also too big for our needs really. When I bought her, we envisaged some holidays with our teenage kids, but that didn't happen. So I find myself dragging around an 8m, 6berth MH, when a 6m, two berth one would suit us just fine.



AH

There's a fine line between uninhibited and asleep!

Last edited by admiral halsey; 05-12-2016 at 18:13.
admiral halsey is offline  
post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-12-2016, 18:27
Senior Member
 
cabby's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Elegant Eastbourne
My Motorhome: Sold it.
Posts: 20,116
Thanks: 248
Thanked 401 Times in 381 Posts
Personal Aire
You do not say if the front wheels are locked or not, if they are not then the master cyl is not the cause.
I myself would ask if the rear brake compensator is at fault.I seem to remember from my distant past about the rear axles dropping beyond a certain point when jacked up activated this valve, You could clamp the rear flexible bake hoses, release the pressure by undoing the bleed nipples and see if the wheels turn.

cabby

Don't be silly all the time ask your question.
cabby is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Motorhome Forums, Motorhome Discussion, Motorhome Chat forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome