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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 02-09-2016, 21:02 Thread Starter
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5th Gear - Again

2005 Ducato 2.3 JTD. Whilst touring in Scotland suddenly lost 5th gear with a bang - more felt than heard. Was somewhat surprised as there had been no symptons whatsoever, no jumping out of gear or anything. Other gears no problem, 2000+ miles later home and looking to get it fixed. Is this the usual 5th gear problem?

Alan
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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 02-09-2016, 22:32
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It used to be on the older sevel units, back to 1999? The 5th gear was an add-on to the old 4 speed box, and according to the guy who repaired mine, the gear cogs were made of cheese!
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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 03-09-2016, 06:50
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Yup, same happened to mine, did what you appear to have done and carried on, didn't really make any difference, just a bit slower on the Motorways, I believe the box is the same on the dukes up to the newer X250, then they built a newer problem, dunno if it's properly fixed yet, as they just didn't bother on the 2.8jtds, I think the cause is there is so much more torque in 5th it basically chews the gear up, never go up a hill in top unless it's a very shallow one even if it feels like it has the power to do so, drop to 4th every so often to get some oil around the 5th gear too.
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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 11-09-2016, 23:07
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2.8 JTD 2005 5th gear Problem Gearbox oil

It seems to come up very often. I had the gearbox oil changed to make sure that it was at the higher level the Fiat recommend. Apparently the 5th Gear is splash lubricated, also I try never to go up into 5th until the engine is warmed up- just in the hope that the oil will be thrown about by then

Mike & Ann
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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 12-09-2016, 10:49
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It certainly sounds like the same problem that I had whilst touring in France. My van is a 2005 2.2 ltr on a Peugeot base. It's an obvious ongoing problem that the manufactures ought to be made to fix free of charge. Our van is at the local mechanics now being fixed. My worry is will it happen again which means digging into our bank account once more.

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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 12-09-2016, 11:10 Thread Starter
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Still trying to get it fixed - the chap who does these at Transmission Services, Guildford, was on holiday last week. He's back today but his mate's on leave this week, hence a backlog of work and only one chap to do it. Hoping to get it done by 22nd when we should be off to Plymouth for a couple of weeks. Can't understand why these people insist on having holidays - as a baby boomer I never take a holiday. Will keep you posted!
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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 12-09-2016, 11:13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike800966 View Post
It seems to come up very often. I had the gearbox oil changed to make sure that it was at the higher level the Fiat recommend. Apparently the 5th Gear is splash lubricated, also I try never to go up into 5th until the engine is warmed up- just in the hope that the oil will be thrown about by then

Mike & Ann
Since reading about this problem in the 2.8Jtd on other threads, and the possible ways to avoid it, I do as Mike has posted: I have had extra oil added to the gearbox and do not use 5th until the engine has reached normal operating temperature. I also do not use 5th below 2100 revs to avoid over-torquing the drive train, incl. the 5th gear.

Geoff
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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 15-09-2016, 16:39
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Just had a call from the garage, all fixed. To pull the gearbox apart, replace the mangled gear and put back together plus the mot whilst he had the van=£690.00. So I suppose all in all I can't complain. By the way, the motorhome has clocked up around 37000 miles.

Nick.
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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-10-2016, 23:42 Thread Starter
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It's done! £286.24 parts, £10 oil, £150 (3 hours) labour, all +VAT making £535.49 total. Excellent service from Transmission Services in Guildford.

All the 'locking' teeth on the 5th gear had sheared. These are not the 'drive' teeth that turn and engage with the driven gear but the teeth on the 5th gear that lock it to the mating teeth on the 'fork-gear' as I have called. The fork-gear is moved by the selector fork to lock it to and so engage the 5th gear. The locking teeth are very small compared to the driving teeth as once locked together the load is shared equally by all the teeth whereas the driving teeth only have one or two teeth in engagement at any time and so have to be much bigger to carry the load. I know this description is not very clear but hopefully the attached pdf with pictures of the damaged fork-gear and the totally stripped 5th gear locking teeth make things clearer. Although I had no jumping out of gear symptoms there was wear on the ends of the teeth of the fork-gear so I assume that this would in time cause a jumping out of gear.

The job was completed the day before we drove to Plymouth for a couple of weeks - much more relaxing with a 5th gear!

Alan
Attached Files
File Type: pdf 5th_Gear_MHF_Post.pdf (945.4 KB, 44 views)
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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-10-2016, 09:46
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From what I read most of these failures are in the synchromesh mechanism and not the actual 5th gear. If that I the case then taking any precaution once you are in 5th gear seem to be unnecessary.
I can see that lack of lubrication might cause the syncro to fail but the more common reason for syncro to fail is snatching gears and or not fully engaging the clutch when changing gear.
Considering the large jump to 5th gear I can quite see why people might do the latter two.

Cheers
Bill
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