7.5 tonne licence - Page 15 - Motorhome Forums, Motorhome Discussion, Motorhome Chat

User Tag List

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #141 of 155 (permalink) Old 13-04-2005, 15:42
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 2,743
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
BTW

When and if we meet up lets just stick to the none contentious issues Like religion, politics, women drivers




George
GeorgeTelford is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #142 of 155 (permalink) Old 13-04-2005, 15:45 Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 225
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
politics

Your on the wrong thread
Red_Dragon_Bus is offline  
post #143 of 155 (permalink) Old 13-04-2005, 16:08
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Nr Malaga,Spain and Meski, Morocco
Posts: 1,395
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
And hey you lads.......George and Jonathan

Both your opinions are VALID...........and this thread/issue (just look at the "views") is an important one and one that could and probably will effect a large numbers of Mhome owners in the future.

Why not, as very articulate and informed individuals, do us all a favour and put your heads together and tackle this issue, again, with those in suits. Get some written replies from insurance co's etc etc. Ok, probably been done before ah George, but it would be nice for us all to see and call upon simple reply letters. If they don't respond I will take it as a conformation of an agreed question.

And, if you two do ever meet I will "second" Jonathan.......only because he is younger and therefore probably stronger.......
Detourer is offline  
 
post #144 of 155 (permalink) Old 13-04-2005, 16:16
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 2,206
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeTelford
BTW

When and if we meet up lets just stick to the none contentious issues Like religion, politics, women drivers




George
Sexist comments not allowed George, you should know better
HelenB is offline  
post #145 of 155 (permalink) Old 13-04-2005, 16:57 Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 225
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Putting the legal side of it all to bed

We all seem to agree that it is important to ensure a driver is competent to drive the vehicle in question.

For a new driver there is a clear path as set out by the DVLA (regardless of wether it is law or not).

As the roads get busier and more complex the government has implemented driving tests and licences.

In the distant past anyone could drive anything and they did not have to sit a test or hold a licence. Over time basic testing was introduced.

Besides the actual driving of a vehicle there is alot of knowledge required. There are hundreds of road signs and road markings which have appeared. Different speed limits for different vehicles on different types of road.

As a teacher of car drivers I do not teach LGV PCV topics to learner car drivers. They learn how to drive a car, their licence as per the DVLA allows them to drive cars and small vans. If they wish to drive a larger vehicle, even if it is permitted by the exemption list, they are advised to have additional training.

Generally larger vehicles are operated by organisations such as charities who follow government recommendations in order to qualify for exemptions. A play bus for example could be driven on a B licence provided a certain amount of training is provided to each driver..

Having undergone LGV and PCV training and testing myself, I know how much more must be learned to pass the theory tests and the practical tests. The scope of the theory tests for larger vehicles covers different subjects to those found in the car theory test. It does cover legal aspects which are not relevant to motorhome drivers but most of the theory is relevant to driving a large motorhome.

It would be very alarming if a 17 year old passed their car test and took to the road in their parents 14 tonne RV that same day. That would just be lunacy.
Red_Dragon_Bus is offline  
post #146 of 155 (permalink) Old 13-04-2005, 16:59
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 2,743
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Ha Helen

got YA

the two best drivers I know are women, which is not to say I agree with the myth that women are better drivers, this came about due to lower premiums being offered to women drivers aha I hear you cry

but the simple truth is that Mile for mile driven women have more accidents, BUT due to the fact that women tend to drive at lower speed than men the damage to life and property tends to be far lower.

End result is while they have more accidents, the net cost is still lower.

So the reality is that they are worse drivers (by number of accidents per mile driven) they are much less destructive.


Safer drivers hmmm yes you are much less likely to die in a vehicle driven by a female or be killed as a third party.
GeorgeTelford is offline  
post #147 of 155 (permalink) Old 13-04-2005, 17:19
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 2,743
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Hi all

The best that can be said legally, is that it doesnt appear to be ilegal to the extent that the law is a total mess and they are Highley unlikely to be able to make any charges stick. The problem they have (prosecution) is that courts will only apply the law as written (we can all see what they meant the law to say, but it doesnt actually say what they mean, Due to the Goods vehicle references in the law) although all the DVLA docs are careful to avoid using Goods Vehicle now. If they point you to the law, all over 7.5 tonnes are described and refered to as Heavy Goods Vehicles, Goods and burden for Trade and in connection with a business. all of which as not a thing to do with motorcaravans.

This mess is I believe why they dont even try to prosecute, which in turn means the insurance companies dont want to be the long winded expensive test case (but thats me guessing at their motives)

Initially DVLA will send out leaflets, which clearly state that its their interpretation of the LAW, when you ask for clarification of which statute they quote the Licencing law that Jonathon listed a few pages back, this is were it gets complex and boring, because that is an amendment to a previous law it doesnt completely supercede it, when you point out the fact that it refers to GOODS VEHICLES they say that a motor caravan is a goods vehicle.

The earlier legislation refers to construction and use dept as the arbitors of what a vehicle is and they say that a motorcaravan is NOT a goods vehicle. THIS is the most important word to remember.

So the legislation doesnt cover motorcaravans (with regard to licencing)

The only court case that ever came close the prosecution withdrew after 3 appearances and 2 Adjournments and awarded all costs to Travelworld citing lack of evidence, this was clearly not the case and if you ring and ask (CPS) you can tell they are uncomfortable talking about it, especially when you mention all the evidence that is still there signed statements etc which would be more than enough to convict if there was actually a law to cover it.

Every area you look at says its not HGV or commercial, Tachographs, speed limitors, lane restrictions, operators licences, HGV testing, even in the real world as you have found, insurance companies are happy and do not try to avoid paying out even on substantial claims, The local traffic police legal dept just say to send them on their way

The reality is not because they are fully legal, more that they cant find a way of proving its against the law.

I think we all know what they want the law to mean, its just that it doesnt conform to what they want it to mean. This means that it would not stad up in court.

Sorry if that repeats a bit had to do a job in between.

Ray what it all means is that no-one will stick their neck out and confirm in writing

George
GeorgeTelford is offline  
post #148 of 155 (permalink) Old 13-04-2005, 17:53 Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 225
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Quote:
Initially DVLA will send out leaflets, which clearly state that its their interpretation of the LAW, when you ask for clarification of which statute they quote the Licencing law that Jonathon listed a few pages back, this is were it gets complex and boring, because that is an amendment to a previous law it doesnt completely supercede it
Unfortunately for a B licence holder it does specify what can be driven though.

The DVLA have reproduced word for word the SI in question.

Which brings us back to it doesnt say you can't.

The definition of a B licence is upto 3500KG, 8 passenger seats.
Red_Dragon_Bus is offline  
post #149 of 155 (permalink) Old 13-04-2005, 18:02
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 2,743
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
No we are not going there again, it was mostly an explaination
of why you cant get any sense out of DVLA

not a cue to start again, BTW you are almost certainly right on B licence
GeorgeTelford is offline  
post #150 of 155 (permalink) Old 13-04-2005, 21:08 Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 225
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeTelford
not a cue to start again, BTW you are almost certainly right on B licence
Start up again

Who me?
Red_Dragon_Bus is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Motorhome Forums, Motorhome Discussion, Motorhome Chat forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome