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jiwawa 23-01-2019 23:30

BBC 2 documentary
 
I've just finished watching 'We need to talk about death'.

Well worth watching in my opinion. Possibly because it chimes with my thinking - that invasive treatment is not always the right way to go.

That's the way I think now. If it came to the bit when I am actually in that situation - and we all will be at some stage unless we're very lucky - who knows?

But i do think it's a conversation we need to have, with ourselves and our loved ones.

patp 24-01-2019 08:16

I do, so, agree Jean. We have just registered our Lasting Power of Attorneys giving each other and our daughter permission to carry out our wishes.

I have to say, though , that when both my parents died the medical staff listened when we passed on their desire to be allowed to go with dignity.

Pudsey_Bear 24-01-2019 08:43

There needs to be a way of going when you feel you have had enough, and I don't mean by withholding treatment or food, but a simple injection similar to how they would treat a loved pet in too much pain, to be treated like a dog at this time would be merciful.

Penquin 24-01-2019 08:44

Sadly it may be the medical authorities that are the instruction....

Very bad experience with my lat m-I-l after she had a massive stroke, was resuscitated by our daughter who had to break into the house, was delivered with a pulse and probable broken neck to A&E and they were trying to keep her alive even though a brain scan indicated virtually no living tissue.

Another daughter (a GP) arrived and was able to say "NO" with sufficient force that the medical staff backed off and simply supported her (my late m-i-l) for a further 3 hours as she declined and passed away.

Not the best experience - those are only the edited "low-lights" there was much more sadly....

We were fortunate that that daughter was able to apply humanity towards the situation.

dghr272 24-01-2019 10:13

An A&E consultant friend explained it to us this way, in all his years of training most of the training was focused on preserving life, curing and investigating, very very little time was about how to deal with palliative care in an impending death situation.

Our own experience when we were caring for my MiL suffering from terminal lung cancer was greatly helped by her hospital Macmillan Nurse. When her doctor mentioned getting various other procedures and investigations done, the nurse explained to us, as we were unaware of the invasive nature of the investigations and the ambulance transfer waits etc, that questions need to be asked of the Consultant as to the quaility of life during the extra investigations compared to immediate hospice care.

Only when pressed hard did the consultant admit that the outcome was similar but the medical investigations were uncomfortable and time consuming, therefore it was obvious to us calm hospice care was the best option as to remaining quality of life, so we refused the suggested further investigations.

My advice is don't be afraid to ask the hard questions of Doctors, they have to give you honest answers.

Terry

patp 24-01-2019 14:42

I must admit thatr I had to be quite forceful with the doctor treating my mother. Having informed us that her condition, an inoperable perforated bowel, was terminal they started to give antibiotics! The nurse whom I challenged, commented that you would not treat a dog in such a manner. The doctor was summoned, he asked me to leave the room and , I presume, questioned my unconscious mother, before withdrawing treatment.

I have always felt that respecting my mother’s wishes was the right thing to do.

jiwawa 24-01-2019 15:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pudsey_Bear (Post 3011017)
There needs to be a way of going when you feel you have had enough, and I don't mean by withholding treatment or food, but a simple injection similar to how they would treat a loved pet in too much pain, to be treated like a dog at this time would be merciful.

Yes, Kev, I think this method is extremely cruel but I suppose fits better with the Hippocratic oath to do no harm.

HermanHymer 24-01-2019 16:19

Well I am really thankful that my husband's recent demise was treated with such dignity, compassion and common sense. He was under the care of, in Hospital Intensive Care, of a Specialist Physician and a Trauma specialist. They very quickly asked me and my stepson what our expectations were. We said, while there is still hope see what can be done, but once there is no hope of recovery, please let him die peacefully and with dignity. I could tell by the hospital bills that they had explored every possible angle to see if this was an incidental illness which could be treated or a terminal illness. Within 2 days they told us there was only a 5% chance of recovery. (But actually it was a nil chance of recovery. I think they were being kind!) I knew full well what my husband's wishes were so I had no problem with passing that on. Over the next few days and his systems failed he was kept calm with morphine. I was there when he passed over and I saw the care and experience of the nursing sister who took care of him at the end.



OK skeptics, stop reading here!


I'm actually peaceful, no, happy, that he's "gone home" to be with his family on the other side and that feeling is far greater than my personal sadness. I consider myself to be "spiritually connected" and I know I'm as cared for, loved and looked after now, as I was when he was alive. On one occasion not long after he passed, I'd set off one morning to give a quilting presentation some 40km away. I stopped at the neighbourhood garage to fill up and I got a "message". "Where's your computer?" I'd left it on the kitchen counter by the back door. That's exactly how my husband used to look after me. I wasn't even thinking "oh where's my computer". (If you've never tried it (heard it?) don't knock it.


To want someone to live on when their best life is over, and is not coming back, is selfish in the extreme.

Pudsey_Bear 24-01-2019 16:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by jiwawa (Post 3011063)
Yes, Kev, I think this method is extremely cruel but I suppose fits better with the Hippocratic oath to do no harm.

I suppose that would depend on what you determine as causing harm, withhold food from me, and you better be out of arms reach.


You can't even enable someone to take care of themselves either, although I think they do tend to be quite lenient with some who have done it.


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