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Autotrail Apache or Scout anyone got one?

14K views 104 replies 12 participants last post by  barryd 
#1 ·
I am particularly looking for someone who has a 2007 model or newer that has one or has had one. Im also interested in the earlier models as well 2004-6 but if possible I may go for a later one.

What I would really like is to find someone who has put a scooter and rack on one. Both seem to have good payload especially on the later models but I cannot get my head around the size of the overhang on the Apache which is on the Ducato chassis. The Scout is Alko with a much shorter overhang. The 2007 Scout claims 750kg payload and with the shorter overhang should easily accommodate a scooter and rack. The Apache 700se whilst having a good payload I worry about the long overhang and the difference it will make in the overall weight on the rear axle once you do the sums and I suspect it will effect handling much more than the Alko Chassis Scout. The handling on our Kontiki 640 with Alko chassis is not effected at all by the scooter. I want to make sure any new van I get is as good.

I am also keen to hear from anyone about all aspects of these vans. It wouldnt have been my first choice of manufacturer but its the layout we want and a decent payload.
 
#41 ·
Well that gives you a bit more of the UK to roam around, just so that you get used to it.>:)>:) and of course you will not have to worry about the exchange rate.

But seriously I am sure that if you see something resembling what you are after there will be a member close enough to have a quick gander for you. I do worry about all those invoices hitting your doormat though.:grin2::grin2:

cabby

If you can bring the list down to a couple of models it will help.Plus you can then send a circular to some of the better dealers as well.
 
#46 ·
Cabs did vary in width between models so you can't compare it that way.
 
#48 ·
I Thought Baileys were 7ft 11?

I might make the Bessacarr fit if I alter the plumbing down the side of the house. Mrs D just said dont be so ridiculous but it does have to go on the drive. Its going to be a bit of a headache if I get it back and it dont fit!

Yes Joe. Its perfect (apart from being wide). Actually I described it as expensive but I think they were only just over £50K new whereas a new Autotrail Scout was £70K which probably explains why a ten year old one is nearly £40K. So its not expensive its just over what I wanted to pay. Why are the AT vans so pricey? People knock Brit vans as not being as good quality as German vans but there must be a reason AT charge that much for new van.

I found this from Swift last night, fully loaded, 650kg payload but not on an Alko Chassis. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2007-FIAT...498253?hash=item4656b64bcd:g:uE0AAOSwzaJX-4SH

Looks ok but presumably this must be a budget model in comparison to say the AT Scout which at that age would be nearly £10K more? I can look at cars and easily tell a budget model from a luxury one but its doesnt seem as easy with motorhomes.
 
#52 ·
Take a TAPE MEASURE.
 
#60 ·
Exactly the problem I go on about Barry, no info, Autotrail did start 02 7 03, not sure if they carried on, but I do have the PDFs for the full range. Just ask & I'll pm them across.
 
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#57 ·
Don't forget you need to allow for an awning cassette sticking out the side, too, unless it is recessed. Vents and other fittings, as well, though to a lesser extent. I bet manufacturers' figures are for the basic box and don't include those. As said above, a tape measure is the only true guide.
 
#58 ·
Yes. You can see the problem looking at the now famous picture of the dilemma.



One solution would be to reroute that wide plastic drain pipe on the left that comes out of the bathroom so it slopes towards the front of the van but higher than the awning for about 5 ft or so then drop it down. No idea how big a job it would be. The gates can come off, in fact one fell off already.

Another option would be to just bin the canopy / awning which would save two or three inches. Never rolled it out once this year and I am not sure we did last year in the south of France and Spain either. Would prefer not to as they are occasionally handy but its 40KG or whatever thats used occasionally. Thats a second battery and a 100w solar panels worth of weight.
 
#62 ·
Just looked at the pic again, it's a soil pipe, more problematic, as it will have to end up where it does now, :( :( it may be that it can be moved at ground level, but would involve digging a trench & possibly more work, you would need a site visit on this one I'm afraid but estimates are usually free, this where a a good builder mate would be useful, speshly if they had a puter problem, but it is solvable, just how much will it cost.
 
#63 ·
You're going off a bit half-cocked, Kev.

It's clearly a soil pipe, and since the toilet outlet visibly exits the wall just above the van (at first floor level as one would expect), the pipe cannot be re-routed. I doubt Bazza wants to redesign his bathroom and shift the bog to another wall.

My advice would be to sell the house and buy one with a larger driveway.:laughing6:
 
#64 ·
:roll: did you not bother to read my next post then, I posted from my phone while in the shop queue, so the pipe was miniscule, got home minutes later and realised my heinous :roll: error
 
#65 ·
Barry

May I stick two pennyworth into the discussion of your driveway?

For whatever MH you might consider a couple of ways of getting more space.

Firstly, awnings can be roof mounted, thus saving a few centimetres. Look at Fiamma's website for the mountings.

I believe you have said your house walls are quite thick, so could you 'chase' that downpipe into a recess and just have a small bend at the bottom into the existing drain, just below MH skirt level? It would need a good cutter for the stone, but it is not rocket science.

As for the gates - they could be on lift-off hinges with padlocks on the top.

A combination of these mods might make your choice of replacements a bit more flexible.

Comments? - other than 'Sod off!' ?

Geoff
 
#67 ·
Barry

May I stick two pennyworth into the discussion of your driveway?

For whatever MH you might consider a couple of ways of getting more space.

Firstly, awnings can be roof mounted, thus saving a few centimetres. Look at Fiamma's website for the mountings.

I believe you have said your house walls are quite thick, so could you 'chase' that downpipe into a recess and just have a small bend at the bottom into the existing drain, just below MH skirt level? It would need a good cutter for the stone, but it is not rocket science.

As for the gates - they could be on lift-off hinges with padlocks on the top.

A combination of these mods might make your choice of replacements a bit more flexible.

Comments? - other than 'Sod off!' ?

Geoff
Liking all of that Geoff.
 
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#66 ·
Thanks chaps. I really dont know whats possible with the plumbing. The wall as you go towards the end of the drive and the garage you can see beyond the van does slope way from the van (gets wider). Thats how I get out. I was thinking I (Well not me) could put a bend in but still sloping downwards above the awning then have it going along but still sloping until its able to drop back down. Thing is new under driveway pipes would need to be laid to join the sewer. The manhole and main sewer is just to the left of the front wheel (you cannot see it in the photo).

Or Captain Overs suggestion of recessing it into the wall might work. The walls are really thick and I recently picked up a stone mason / builder as a client so maybe he could tell me.

Unless of course I end up with a van of similar dimensions. Finally got into the Autotrail owners group on Facebook. Will post the findings later but so far they reckon as Terry said, its not possible with an AT because of 100kg limits on the back end tow bar or something. Will come back on that one.

Thanks Kev for the offer of the PDF's. I have found most of them but getting the right info is a PIA.

At this rate I Reckon I am just going to find a newer Kontiki on a short overhang Alko, get it weighed and see whats what and if need be get it uprated from 4000kg to 4250 if that is possible.
 
#71 ·
Yours will be the cooking version then Bazza ;) ;)
 
#76 ·
Just dont! Just dont! If anyone who voted for Brex**** think they can remotely even think about joking about moving to France when you know full well that is what we wanted to do before you lot buggered up everything I will kill you to death with a massive rubber EU emblazoned hammer!
 
#77 ·
Yes Barry n Cabby. We are all £20% worse off now. And with our pension down 20% and everything we buy using a UK CC 20% more expensive. I will have the begging bowl outside Auchan or Lidl this Christmas.!

Ray.
 
#78 · (Edited)
Just in case anyone is interested here are the comments from the Autotrail Facebook page. You would need to read from the bottom up. What I am confused about is that one member is suggesting you would need to upgrade the tyres at least and should have upgraded them on the Kontiki despite it being within the limits. He seems to think that its out of the question on some vans because of a 100kg limit on the back end.

Dave Walker
3:04pm Oct 11 Only slightly related -

Most good camper tyres, like Continental vango camper 225/75 R16 tyres are rated at 1250kg so thats 2500kg on the axle.
Fiat Maxi Chassis are rated at 2400kg on the axle.
SV TECH will upgrade your back axle to 2500kg if you fit air rides.
If you uprate your tyres to 118 rating (as opposed to more normal 114 or 116 they give you 2600kg on the axle.

Most people are running close to max rear axle loading as it is - plenty of threads posted on here about it. I am! - Mohawk with garage.

Given all that and even if we had spare axle capacity us Fiat chassis people still have the 100kg limit imposed by chassis extensions.

I'm now using a Hydratrail carrier getting round these issues and am hauling a 170kg motorcycle.

Comment History
Barry Dobson 3:09pm Oct 11 Thanks Steve. (I am not sure if I am replying correctly as I am doing it from my email program now)

When Armitage fitted the rack to my Alko Kontiki I believe they fitted it into the actual Alko Chassis. So are you and Dave saying that on the none Alko AT vans there is limit of 100KG on the tow bar extension? If so that explains Daves comment about it not all being about payload?


Dave Walker 2:51pm Oct 11 2007 to 2010 you'll have to go with a Scout. They have Alko and contrary to your earlier comment the overhang is still massive. The rear tyre loading will be an issue but it would have been with your Kon Tiki - but you must have upgraded the tyres??
You stand a sporting chance with the Scout but I'd just put it to Armitage and ask them to quote what can be done.
There is no way a 700 can legally carry a 125 scooter (imo)��

Comment History
Steve Tonks 2:54pm Oct 11 I have a 2012 apache 700.. Due to the fact they fit extensions to the chassis the max down force on the tow bar is 100kg.. Be aware 100kg on the back end will add more like 140 on the rear axle..

Barry Dobson 3:04pm Oct 11 It is available payload though surely. Well available payload over the rear axle. So if you have say a 700 kg total payload available with perhaps 300 free on the back axle, your rack and tow bar say weighs 50kg and your bike 100kg, you then do the maths depending on the distance from the centre of the rear wheel to where the rack will be work out the sums and lets say the bike, rack and overhang make the weight added 250kg you can safely fit the rack and bike. IF the available payload on the rear axle is say 100kg before you start, dont bother doing the sums as it isnt going to work.

So, has anyone done it?


Barry Dobson 3:09pm Oct 11 Thanks Steve. (I am not sure if I am replying correctly as I am doing it from my email program now)

When Armitage fitted the rack to my Alko Kontiki I believe they fitted it into the actual Alko Chassis. So are you and Dave saying that on the none Alko AT vans there is limit of 100KG on the tow bar extension? If so that explains Daves comment about it not all being about payload?


Steve Tonks 4:06pm Oct 11 YES... New vehicles come with a COE Certificate of conformity.. It's stated there on mine it's 100kg.. On an alko you would have fitted direct to the main chassis.. On the newer fiat chassis where the van length is extended they add extension bars and towbars are now fitted to this extension piece... In therory you could have something manufactured that went further back and fixed to the chassis.. As long as its not for towing then its allowed as they changed the rules in April 2012 and motorhome towbars have to be type approved.. OR wait for Brexit :)

Barry Dobson 6:53pm Oct 11 Thanks Steve. So is this restriction only on the new models? I would be looking probably 2007-10 depending on model, price etc. Im not bothered how much it costs (Well I am). If I have to have the vehicle, chassis etc upgraded, modified or replated then I will. Chances are I will keep it as long as we have had this one and keeping the rack is worth its worth in gold as opposed to having to get a trailer. I do think however that the shorter the overhang whatever the payload or modifications made are the handling will be better which to me says go for an Alko Chassis again rather than the standard Ducato. I do like the look and Layout of the 2007 onwards Scouts and Apache's. Basically they are the same as our Kontiki. I guess I would have loads more choice if I went for a Euro van with a big garage and fixed bed but I just dont want that layout. Its really narrowing my options and making the hunt all that more difficult.

I would have preferred internal fresh water tanks like our Kontiki has as I think the AT vans are all external but its not a deal breaker.

Thanks for all the great help so far


View All Comments Original Post
Barry Dobson 1:21pm Oct 11 Hello everyone. I am new here. I do not own an Autotrail at the moment. I have had a Swift Kontiki 640 for the past 8 years or so and the first thing I did (after doing all the sums etc) was get a scooter and rack fitted by Armitage. Its been superb.

I think a friend from Motorhomefacts posted on my behalf the other day (cant find it) but I am considering either a used Apache or a Scout to replace the ageing Kontiki. I really would prefer a model with the Alko Chassis as they have a shorter overhang and I think the payload on the Scout on the Alko was around 750kg.

My main question was has anyone put a scooter on an Autotrail on a rack and if so which model and what were your weights before and after?

I dont really use Facebook so apologies in advance if this is posted in the wrong place
 
#80 ·
Found this for you Barry.

cabby

eBay item number:152275112289
Only two previous owners J. C. hrist and M. Oses
 
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#82 ·
And new decals, may have been in a collision.
 
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