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-   -   Unladen weight - definition and EU directives. (https://forums.motorhomefacts.com/183-suspension-chassis/57330-unladen-weight-definition-eu-directives.html)

timotei 23-08-2009 16:38

Unladen weight - definition and EU directives.
 
The text below is copied from the Rapido website.

When purchasing a RAPIDO, the unladen weight includes the weight of the vehicle's standard equipment.
The unladen weight of camping-cars is determined in compliance with the laws currently in force and includes the vehicle in working order, the driver (75kg), the gas bottle, fresh water and fuel tanks up to 90 % of their capacitywith a tolerance of +/-5 % (in accordance with European Directive EC 92/21).
It is therefore the responsibility of the user to adjust the load and the number of passengers on board according to the payload and the weight of any additional equipment he installed or has had installed in the vehicle.


My understanding of this is that the unladen weight includes one person (driver), and full(ish) fuel and water tanks. It also suggests that this is in accordance with a specific EU directive. If this is the case, shouldn't all European motorhome be the same?

When making enquiries about the weights of motorhomes recently, I was consistently told by dealers and manufacturers in the UK that the unladen mass took no account of any of the above.

Have i (mis)understood? Is the EU directive to do with the tolerance of measure on the water / fuel tanks, rather than stating that unladen mass should include them? What is your understanding, or what do your manufacturers / converters state?

Thanks,

Timotei.

Pudsey_Bear 23-08-2009 16:49

The unladen weight of a commercial van is with everything empty, no driver, 1 gallon of fuel and all liquids IE radiator etc full to normal levels.

Then you take it to a weighbridge, after that you know how much you can carry which is your payload, this includes you and fuel etc.

This is also why "some" MH manufacturers claim these ridiculous payloads, you put your water in fill up with diesel, throw a pair of knickers in a drawer and you're overweight, or close to it.

They should be made by law fill everything up, except the fuel tank (diesel weighs 0.856kg per litre) which can be calculated, some even remove the spare, weigh it and give you a certified weighbridge certificate of exactly what it weighs.

Then if you get pulled, you know it's your own fault.

BTW we are usually overweight with everything full, oops.

Kev.

timotei 23-08-2009 16:52

Kev,

that must be some pair of knickers!!! 8O :D :oops:

Timotei

Pudsey_Bear 23-08-2009 17:03

Err, no, I'll keep me gob shut.


Kev.

JeanLuc 23-08-2009 17:06

The Rapido website is wrong. The figure they are referring to (75kg driver, basic equipment etc.) is called the Mass in Running Order (MIRO).
The maximum allowable weight of the vehicle fully loaded is called the Maximum Technically Permitted Laden Mass (MTPLM) or sometimes the Maximum Authorised Mass (MAM).

So, MTPLM minus MIRO = the practically usable payload after accounting for fuel, gas, water etc. (But you still have to make some adjustments, e.g. most of us are over 75kg!)

Unladen Weight as Kev says is the van basically empty. It is of little value to a motorhomer, other than to calculate the absolute payload. It is also the figure used to determine whether your maximum speed on a single carriageway is 50 or 60mph, and 60 or 70mph on a dual carriageway. If the unladen weight is over 3050kg, the lower limits apply.

I have found it really hard to determine the unladen weight of my Hymer (other than with a weighbridge) but from the catalogue, I can read the MIRO and then adjust it for extras like awning, additional battery, bigger engine, auto box and my real weight etc.

Hope this helps rather than confuses.

Philip

p.s. have you looked in FAQ section? I cannot remember whether there is a paper on weights in there, but would guess there is.

timotei 23-08-2009 17:10

Sorry Kev!! :oops: :oops: :oops:

Hope I haven't got you in trouble!


Thanks Jean Luc - that makes good sense.

Timotei.

Pudsey_Bear 23-08-2009 17:14

I have been in trouble before, I shall be in trouble again most likely, even when I'm right I appear to be wrong, such is the life of a bloke.

Ho Hum


Kev.

rayc 23-08-2009 17:18

Quote : Philip:
Unladen Weight as Kev says is the van basically empty. It is of little value to a motorhomer, other than to calculate the absolute payload. It is also the figure used to determine whether your maximum speed on a single carriageway is 50 or 60mph, and 60 or 70mph on a dual carriageway. If the unladen weight is over 3050kg, the lower limits apply.

Philip

Philip, If a summons is issued for exceeding the speed limit for a MH with an unladen weight of greater than 3050kg how do you prove the unladen weight is under 3050kg. The unladen weight is not plated and as you say the manufacturers figure is in effect the MIRO. The MIRO must always be greater than the unladen weight ,as it allows 75kg for the driver etc,so I guess you show the court the manufacturers quoted MIRO and argue your case.
Incedentally how would a Fixed Penalty Notice be issued for the offence in the first place? A check of DVLA will only show the "Revenue Weight" which bears no relationship to the MIRO or Unladen weight?

The notice in my Chausson handbook is " Vehicle Body Weight In Running Order +/- 5%" = 3075kg. It then defines Vehicle Body Weight In Running Order as " The weight empty, including the weight of the driver 75kg,plus 90% of the fuel, water and gas.

I would argue therefore that my MH unladen weight must be much less than 3050kg and therefore the higher speed limits apply to it. I hope I never have to explain that to a Police Officer manning a speed trap.

Ray

Ray

JeanLuc 23-08-2009 17:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by rayc
Quote :
Philip, If a summons is issued for exceeding the speed limit for a MH with an unladen weight of greater than 3050kg how do you prove the unladen weight is under 3050kg. The unladen weight is not plated and as you say the manufacturers figure is in effect the MIRO. The MIRO must always be greater than the unladen weight ,as it allows 75kg for the driver etc,so I guess you show the court the manufacturers quoted MIRO and argue your case.
Incedentally how would a Fixed Penalty Notice be issued for the offence in the first place? A check of DVLA will only show the "Revenue Weight" which bears no relationship to the MIRO or Unladen weight?

Ray

Ray

I agree Ray, it's not that easy. In my case, the MTPLM is 3800kg and the MIRO for the basic van is "approx. 3,000 kg" (Hymer's words) making the unladen weight less than that. However, given that there are quite a few 'weighty' upgrades to the basic spec, I err on the side of caution and assume the unladen weight may be at or above the magic 3050 kg. So, I try to keep to 50mph. I suspect I am being over-cautious, but it would be a pain to have to prove the point. In any case, I like playing the 'beat the mpg' game.

Philip

nicholsong 04-03-2018 20:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by rayc (Post 541727)
Quote : Philip:
Unladen Weight as Kev says is the van basically empty. It is of little value to a motorhomer, other than to calculate the absolute payload. It is also the figure used to determine whether your maximum speed on a single carriageway is 50 or 60mph, and 60 or 70mph on a dual carriageway. If the unladen weight is over 3050kg, the lower limits apply.

Philip

Philip, If a summons is issued for exceeding the speed limit for a MH with an unladen weight of greater than 3050kg how do you prove the unladen weight is under 3050kg. The unladen weight is not plated and as you say the manufacturers figure is in effect the MIRO. The MIRO must always be greater than the unladen weight ,as it allows 75kg for the driver etc,so I guess you show the court the manufacturers quoted MIRO and argue your case.
Incedentally how would a Fixed Penalty Notice be issued for the offence in the first place? A check of DVLA will only show the "Revenue Weight" which bears no relationship to the MIRO or Unladen weight?

The notice in my Chausson handbook is " Vehicle Body Weight In Running Order +/- 5%" = 3075kg. It then defines Vehicle Body Weight In Running Order as " The weight empty, including the weight of the driver 75kg,plus 90% of the fuel, water and gas.

I would argue therefore that my MH unladen weight must be much less than 3050kg and therefore the higher speed limits apply to it. I hope I never have to explain that to a Police Officer manning a speed trap.

Ray

Ray

The prosecution have to prove your unladen weight was above 3050kg.

Maybe that is why we do not have many reported cases of convictions.

Just file it in 'Pending further investigation'

Geoff


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