Yes it's that time of year again. Away for Christmas and we have a problem already.
The 12v internal electrics in the van is tripping when on hook-up. There is a Power Management System in our wardrobe and on it are three MCB's (Miniature Circuit Breakers) and also a charger switch which I think is linked to a Motorhome type charger installed underneath the wardrobe and fitted by Leisuretech a few years ago.
I have attached a photo and you will see that the charger red switch on the top is not lit up and that the third MCB is now off. If you put it on the whole system trips. The other two MCB's seem to control the 240v supply so that's working fine. All the 12v stuff in the van is working but obviously it's not charging so would go dead in a few days. I have got around this (thanks to the Gnome helpline) by plugging in a standard 12v battery charger and connecting it onto the battery and plugging it into the 240v system.
Battery is charging right now so I guess I'll just plug it in when I'm in the van, leave it off for a day or two then plug it in again etc.
But why has this happened and can I rectify it on site? We are here for three weeks. Everything was working fine for the four and a half months we were away but last week I had some welding done on the van. Maybe this could have caused a short somewhere if it was electrical welding as I am guessing they won't have thought to disconnect the leisure battery.
Any thoughts for this year's Christmas motorhome problem?
Thanks guys. I cant remember if I took the lead out of the battery charger but I did try it with the battery charger turned off and it still tripped. I was trying to trace where the lead goes into the PMS but couldnt figure it out. Looks like there are two leads coming out of the charger. Like an electroblock lead (if that is the right word) and there are several leads going in the bottom of the PMS so presumably one of them is for the charger. Ill try disconnecting it later and see what happens. Ill try and get a photo of the charger as I guess I could just replace it if its that that is the problem but it makes sense that it could be.
From memory I think it was quite expensive. That probably included Leisuretech fitting it of course but surely I could just do it myself if I get a like for like.
Alternatively could there be something faulty with the power supply that is causing the MCB to trip? Since presumably the alternative battery charger you are using is not protected by a MCB you will have no way of knowing for sure unless you connect the van's battery charger to an alternative supply - maybe somewhere else on the site if possible?
Hmm. Thanks. We are on a farm and the supply is coming from the farm house. They have an outside hookup point but when it wasnt working yesterday before I discovered it was tripping we stuck the end of the lead through the window and into the farmhouse kitchen to a socket on the wall which was definitely working and the same. This morning we have put it back in the one outside so thats two supplies its been plugged into and it trips on both. Ok so they are coming from the same house but I also put my tester in which showed all three red lights for live, earthed and standard polarity. There is no other sockets to try unfortunately.
The charger below the wardrobe is a volta intelligent 3-stage 18 amp leisure battery charger and a photo is below. Can get one on ebay between £100-£150. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Volta-Int...hash=item4642a685df:m:m_TtaHJ-mRC-S9PXwWcrXXQ but I am reluctant to shell out that sort of money if it turns out its something else. According to the Volta bumf it should be well protected anyway. I just hope its not something in the internals of the PMS though as I bet thats expensive even if you can get hold of one.
Surely the MCB's are ONLY on the 230 volt system and not the 12V ?? Therefore you have a mains issue NOT 12 volt issue.
I would try disconnecting all of the 230V items from their supply (remove plug/switch off etc) and then reinstall each in turn, when the MCB trips you have found the suspect unit. Could be any of the 230 v systems fed off that MCB (or is it the main MCB as in the one that turns everything off.)
There is a power switch on your volta 230 to 12v charger Turn it off then turn the tripping mcb off then back on and connect up the 230 hook up again
If it still trips with the volta turned off i suspect its something else conncted to the same mcb , if it doesnt trip then switch the volta back on and wait for it to trip the mcb
Is the mains lead going into e back of the volta psu a kettle lead ? Can it be pulled out or is it hard wired in?
The way I read it was that the MCB that is tripping is only feeds the charger. The 12v switch on top of the mains unit is really a charger on switch. It should be possible to remove the mains input from the charger and confirm the MCB does not trip under those circumstances. [ all safety precautions taken of course].
Perhaps Barry could confirm what the 12v switch does and whether it is a PMS1 or PMS4 unit?
Hopefully it will not be the PMS but they are relatively common and cheap on the used market http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PMS1-Cara...eae9689&pid=100011&rk=2&rkt=3&sd=301683526143
This range of PMS manufactured by Plug In systems were very commonplace years ago in caravans and motorhomes. I suspect that the charger section went duff and a the stand alone one fitted by Leisuretech.
The three MCB's were normally allocated
MCB1(10A) - SOCKETS
MCB2(6A) - LIGHTING
MCB3(6A) - FRIDGE / CHARGER
Of course there may have been additions over the years such as mains water heater etc but it is possible that the fridge is tripping the MCB and not the charger?
Thought I had sussed it but its as clear as mud now. Switched the fridge and power supply for the 12v off and turned back on the third trip switch. All good so far. Didnt trip. Turned on the 12v battery supply, charger came on and immediately started charging. So then turned on the fridge onto EHU. Still didnt trip. So it looked like all was working. Two minutes later everything went off. The third tip switch went off but so did everything else.
Now Im panicking a bit as we had lost all EHU power despite the other two trip switches still in the upright position. After much flapping of arms and choice words it turns out it had actually tripped the supply in the house where its plugged in outside so that was reset and it came back on. So Im back to where I was yesterday. Ive left the third switch off, put the fridge on gas and Im just using the supplied battery charger to keep the battery topped up.
Im just going to leave it at that as I dont want to end up with no power at all and dont want to keep bothering the farmer.
The Fridge was the last thing switched on but Im now wondering if I have overloaded the house supply and maybe there is nothing wrong internally. Always been ok before here though.
Thought I had sussed it but its as clear as mud now. Switched the fridge and power supply for the 12v off and turned back on the third trip switch. All good so far. Didnt trip. Turned on the 12v battery supply, charger came on and immediately started charging. So then turned on the fridge onto EHU. Still didnt trip. So it looked like all was working. Two minutes later everything went off. The third tip switch went off but so did everything else.
If standard the third MCB is only 5A. If you try it again then do either the charger or fridge alone for a longish period of time. The fridge 240v element could for example be failing as it gets hotter, causing more current flow as its resistance goes down. It appears to be an over current problem as the MCB is tripping and not the RCD.
Either way your thought on leaving it and trying it elsewhere on a different EHU is sensible but if it has the same result then in my opinion the third MCB circuits need testing by a competent person who can split the third MCB circuits and test them individually with a high current tester.
But it sounds as though the farm house tripped out on its RCD - mmh!
Pity Barryd's camper RCD didnt trip , could be worth pressing the test button on that to check it
I would hope its the fridge , and more than likey to be the element - and probably the cheapest item to replace excluding the removal and refitting of the fridge to change it , is Barryd up for this ?
Thanks folks. Interesting Trek that you say you hope its the fridge. I was worried that would be the most expensive to replace. Charger I think was about £100. I think the charger is fine now though as it was working ok in the test until it tripped.
I had the solar and MPPT controller disconnected as a precaution but ive reconnected it as the Kontikis standard battery indicator was way over to the right, much more than normal and the MPPT controller when connected eventually sounded an overcharge alarm, it was showing 14.7 volts, F1 error and blue light which indicates over charge so I have switched off the charger. Ill let it run down a bit but I guess Ill need to keep an eye on this temporary battery charger as it seems it may just carry on and fry the battery. Im surprised as its only been on a few hours this morning but I guess most stuff is running on the 240v circuit. Showing 13.1 now.
As said, we have a working solution for now so Ill just carry on like we are and hope it stays like this.
Everything seems to be kind of working at the moment. The borrowed charger is plugged into a 240v socket and is charging the leisure battery but at times it seems to be putting too much charge in. The MPPT controller the other day registered 14.9 volts and the overcharge alarm came on. I just keep switching it on for 2-3 hours and when it creeps up to about 14.2 Volts I turn it off. I am not leaving it on when the van is unattended. Am I best letting it run down to about 12.1 then leave it on for several hours or best just trying to keep it topped up?
I wouldn't let it get as low as 12.1 Baz. I'll send you a useful guide to voltage against state of charge, can't seem to post it here unless I put it in the cloud first.
Thanks Alan, got that. I dont normally let it go that far down and there is no need to at the moment but as I have posted I think before I Reckon that battery is either duff or just not very good as it quickly goes down to about 12.1 after a day or so off hookup.
Well as it's mid winter and you're probably watching telly and using lights and maybe heating with fans etc. it may be going down that far if not getting a charge for 24 hours. Especially as it sounds as though you may have a single leisure battery. It's quite easy to calculate your usage you know, then you will know whether the battery is performing as it should.
Is it just one battery, if so what capacity? In amp hours that is, not how much liquid is in it.
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