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post #11 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-10-2012, 13:25 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stanner
This, along with DPF (diesel particulate filter) clogging, is often a penalty of giving your engine an easy life.

Gentle driving means the EGR valve is open most of the time and as a result can clog and stay open when it should close.
Similarly gentle driving means the DPF gets clogged with particulates but doesn't get properly regenerated.

Your occasional hard use up the hills etc. probably pushes the engine past the point when the EGR should be closed and perhaps it isn't closing properly and the ECU is picking that up and going into "safe" (or "limp home" mode).

I'd be inclined to try what is known in the trade as an "Italian Tune up".

Drive it hard with plenty of revs (not just up hill) for a while.
Gentle driving explains it all. This is the first diesel I have had and for four years usually change up on the rev counter at 2k max 2.5k I am rarely on motorways and it only then that I get up to about 3k in 6th gear that it has happened. Your "limp home mode" exactly describes the symptoms and why it clears on switch off and on.

My sincere thanks to Stanner and Colin for nailing this one down. Much better than guessing at the garage! I have checked them and a fitted replacement of the EGR is quoted at £210 + vat so I will try the Italian Tune Up first.

Could you please recommend the easiest way to go about this. Is it just about revs, speed or load. I would have to break the speed limit in 6th but could do a motorway run in fourth! What revs and duration would be good. Dont hold back as I accept this is at my own risk. PM me if you prefer.
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post #12 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-10-2012, 17:45
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If the EGR is clogged and sticking open, giving it a blast now may not do anything except keep producing the same reaction from the ECU - at least at first

On my Alfa JTD and on the previous Fiat JTD (cars) I could strip, clean and re-fit the EGR valve in an hour or so.

On the Renault I have no idea where it is located and so have never tried to see if it needs cleaning.

EGR is the spawn of Satan so far as I'm concerned - whoever ever thought of feeding exhaust gases back into the inlet manifold deserves to have something nasty fed up his/her exhaust.

I've seen car inlet manifolds half obstructed by the crud that comes in from the exhaust. (See below)

and below that what was scraped out of the manifold

Just try using higher revs - well over 3000rpm - at regular intervals and you could try running in no higher than 4th for a while on a motorway to see if that loosens things up.
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post #13 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-10-2012, 18:05
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewball1000
Thanks Colin, that is very good to know.

In my case I do get a loss of power when the lights are on and do have have to stop to switch off and on again. This is difficult on Motorways.

The engine is fine after. It as if the EMU is causing the engine to run differently rather than the fault it detected which makes no sense to me.
Andrew, I had a similar experience with my Seat Alhambra TDi., continually going into "limp home" mode. You do not need to stop to reset the ECU, just switching the key off & straight back on again resets the ECU to normal mode.
WARNING - DO NOT REMOVE THE KEY WHILST MOVING AS THIS WILL ENGAGE THE STEERING LOCK.

In my case it took 15 months for the dealer to sort out under warranty, which was the turbo seals leaking. New turbo cured the problem.
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post #14 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-10-2012, 18:21 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stanner
If the EGR is clogged and sticking open, giving it a blast now may not do anything except keep producing the same reaction from the ECU - at least at first

On my Alfa JTD and on the previous Fiat JTD (cars) I could strip, clean and re-fit the EGR valve in an hour or so.

On the Renault I have no idea where it is located and so have never tried to see if it needs cleaning.

EGR is the spawn of Satan so far as I'm concerned - whoever ever thought of feeding exhaust gases back into the inlet manifold deserves to have something nasty fed up his/her exhaust.

I've seen car inlet manifolds half obstructed by the crud that comes in from the exhaust. (See below)

and below that what was scraped out of the manifold

Just try using higher revs - well over 3000rpm - at regular intervals and you could try running in no higher than 4th for a while on a motorway to see if that loosens things up.
Thanks again Stanner , the picture says it all. I will give it a go on my next trip.
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post #15 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-10-2012, 18:24 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emmbeedee
Andrew, I had a similar experience with my Seat Alhambra TDi., continually going into "limp home" mode. You do not need to stop to reset the ECU, just switching the key off & straight back on again resets the ECU to normal mode.
WARNING - DO NOT REMOVE THE KEY WHILST MOVING AS THIS WILL ENGAGE THE STEERING LOCK.

In my case it took 15 months for the dealer to sort out under warranty, which was the turbo seals leaking. New turbo cured the problem.
Thanks Emmbeedee. I assumed this would work but was reluctant to try it on a motorway in case I lost power steering or braking. I have limped to the next off ramp and switched off at the roundabout then rejoined.
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post #16 of 26 (permalink) Old 08-10-2012, 21:31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewball1000
Quote:
Originally Posted by emmbeedee
Andrew, I had a similar experience with my Seat Alhambra TDi., continually going into "limp home" mode. You do not need to stop to reset the ECU, just switching the key off & straight back on again resets the ECU to normal mode.
WARNING - DO NOT REMOVE THE KEY WHILST MOVING AS THIS WILL ENGAGE THE STEERING LOCK.

In my case it took 15 months for the dealer to sort out under warranty, which was the turbo seals leaking. New turbo cured the problem.
Thanks Emmbeedee. I assumed this would work but was reluctant to try it on a motorway in case I lost power steering or braking. I have limped to the next off ramp and switched off at the roundabout then rejoined.
OK, you won't lose power steering or power braking as long as your engine is still turning over. The switch off only needs to be momentary for the ECU to reset.
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post #17 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-10-2012, 09:36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stanner
If the EGR is clogged and sticking open, giving it a blast now may not do anything except keep producing the same reaction from the ECU - at least at first

On my Alfa JTD and on the previous Fiat JTD (cars) I could strip, clean and re-fit the EGR valve in an hour or so.

On the Renault I have no idea where it is located and so have never tried to see if it needs cleaning.

EGR is the spawn of Satan so far as I'm concerned - whoever ever thought of feeding exhaust gases back into the inlet manifold deserves to have something nasty fed up his/her exhaust.

I've seen car inlet manifolds half obstructed by the crud that comes in from the exhaust. (See below)

and below that what was scraped out of the manifold

Just try using higher revs - well over 3000rpm - at regular intervals and you could try running in no higher than 4th for a while on a motorway to see if that loosens things up.
Those pictures look exactly like the EGR valve on my son's '03 reg Vauxhall Zafira. With that, it was simply a matter of blanking off the position that the valve fitted (£5 blanking plate off eBay) and leaving the valve hanging on its cables (to fool the ECU that it was still there, working). Unfortunately, it isn't as easy on the Master engine, but I read that some have achieved it.

The EGR valve is only to take the NOX gases out of the exhaust - something that isn't checked at the MOT. It was added to comply with EEC construction requirements, but not testing requirements.

I am stripping the front end of our Master this weekend, and will see how easy it is to get at the EGR valve which is buried a long way down, according to the workshop manual I have.

Colin

PS- second-hand valves are around £120, so the price quoted by the OP is possibly supply only - fitting could be a couple of hours job.

No longer motorhoming due to illness, but always prepared to help by sharing any experience I may have.
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post #18 of 26 (permalink) Old 07-03-2013, 13:07 Thread Starter
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An update on this.

Replaced the EGR valve two weeks ago (major job, difficult accesses). Still have the problem

Replaced the pressure sensor this week (different garage). Still get the same problem. Booked in again for Monday.

Lets hope

Symptoms are at speed on motorway up steepish incline under load. Light comes on at 2800 - 3000 rpm in fifth gear when acellerator downed. Goes into limp home mode. Cleared by switching ignition off an on again.
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post #19 of 26 (permalink) Old 31-05-2013, 21:34 Thread Starter
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I would appreciate any advice on this as I am in Morocco and the problem has got worse. I can cope with till I get back to Europe but might call in on a Renault dealer in Spain or France.

What I need is help identifying the cause of the problem because the experts I dealt with in the UK haven't found it.

So far I have been to three separate garages on five ocassions including Renault Trucks in Reading and the bill has totalled over £1,000 and the problem still exists. Four separate items indicated by the diagnostics have been replaced. EGR. Vacum. Something I can't remember and the acellerator pedal.

It is getting worse. Today driving from Gorges du Ziz to Azrou the light came on over 30 to 40 times when climbing requiring the ignition to be turned off and on again.

The symptoms are not consistent which is why it's do difficult to pin down. Two of the garages spent ages driving and trying to pin them down.

I feel that I have lost low end torque below 2000rpm. I am having to rev higher in a lower gear. At higher speed in fifth or sixth I am having to change down when meeting any slight incline and run at nearer 3000 rpm when I would expect it to handle it easily.

On steeper climbs that I would expect to do in third I am having to use first and second at 2500 to 3000 rpm wheras before I didn't.

Any advice would be appreciate. Thanks
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post #20 of 26 (permalink) Old 31-05-2013, 22:24
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one more thing it could be (and something I found AFTER paying for a new EGR) is a split pipe between the turbo and the manifold.

They are quite thick and stiff ( ) and the split often only opens under heavy boost conditions (just as you describe) and the loss of boost triggers limp home mode.

It is very difficult to diagnose and it even beat my usually very on the Ball (sorry ) Fiat techie. I only twigged it by accident and did a temp repair with Duct tape - 1000% improvement.

Try squeezing all the piping between the turbo and the inlet manifold and see if any collapse easier than the rest.

Then do the same to that one with the engine running (keep any dangly bits you want to retain away from any moving bits) and if you feel/hear a rush of air or change of engine note that could be where your problem lies.
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