Motorhome Facts Forum banner

VW facing huge fines in USA.

32K views 153 replies 27 participants last post by  emmbeedee 
#1 ·
VW are in serious trouble in the USA because of their system to "fool" the emissions test. This could potentially bankrupt the company, as it affects almost 500,000 vehicles & there is a large fine per vehicle.
European authorities are now investigating them too.
Watch this space!

Details of the NOV here:
http://www3.epa.gov/otaq/cert/documents/vw-nov-caa-09-18-15.pdf
 
#2 ·
a fine of apparently $24,000 per vehicle plus the fine overall......

not surprisingly VW shares have fallen....

I wonder if Mercedes and Daimler-Bentz knew about this too as most manufacturers will take aprt a competitors cars just to see what's new and that will include the software.....

Watch this space I suspect.....

There will be a vacancy for a new CEO coming up soon.....

Dave
 
#7 · (Edited)
a fine of apparently $24,000 per vehicle plus the fine overall......
Dave
It could be a lot more than that Dave. The fine is $37,500 per violation, not per vehicle. As I read the NOV, it would appear that there are at least three violations per vehicle.* Multiply that lot up & you end up with an astronomical figure.
They may not apply all of the fines & maybe not the full amount either, but the Yanks are known to be hard on foreign companies.
GM of course are still reeling from the effects of the ignition switch scandal so this may be used as an opportunity to hit one of their competitors.

* 1) Fitting the "defeat device", which is a specific violation.
2) Not declaring the "defeat device" in the Certificate of Conformity. (CofC).
3) Supplying vehicles that did not conform to the CofC.

Forgot to add, class action lawsuits have already been raised, on behalf of affected owners, seeking full refunds plus damages!
 
#5 ·
BBC suggesting today that it extends across the industry. CEO of VW apparently has been sent down the road although yet to be confirmed by VW. Still I suppose they will be pretty busy in meetings :smile2:

Dick
 
#8 ·
They checked a BMW X5 (also Bosch equipped?) as well Peter & found nothing wrong, but it may not use the same software as VW. I'm not sure whether the software would be a Bosch or VW item.
It seems only 4 cylinder engines are involved and the X5 was probably the V6 engine.
 
#9 ·
Nobody is going to bankrupt VW it's not worth it, too many folk are employed there and too much is at stake, politicians will be involved to smooth it over... They will be fined no doubt about that but making them go under does not bear thinking about, they will do a software update or something to cough! fix it.

ray.
 
#12 ·
Are we surprised that it might have been a deliberate act.....................surely the nature of capitalism is that " the public

wants what the public gets"

Jezza would say "what do you expect"...............these are only the things that you get to find out about.

There are always the known (to them) unknowns(to us)
 
#13 ·
I suspect that this is the tip of a very large iceberg indeed.

It's certainly going to cost VW some very serious money. Any software will have been produced to a VERY detailed brief provided by VW. Someone knew EXACTLY what was being done and they I suspect will be given up by VW as a "sacrificial goat" and the big boys will simply smile and walk away (probably with a bonus to boot)

Andy
 
#14 ·
I think it's very clever of VW to do this. Not so clever to get caught especially by Americans.
There can't have been many diesel VWs sold stateside. The yanks still think diesel is a dirty smelly fuel.

I don't think I want any adjustments to my VWs as they go well and get good mileage.

Years ago I always took the air cleaner out to pass the new emission tests.

Ray.
 
#16 ·
I can see how this can happen in the creeping morals of some large businesses today. "OK boys concentrate we want show the best our car can do emissions wise. But there is however a trade off against economy and performance.

Let's show what the vehicle is capable of emissions wise for testing but have the default settings for performance and economy when we sell to the public. That's not illegal is it?

From what I understand it is for the emissions contraventions of cars sold that they are being fined for. Not for doing anything illegal.

I really do despair of our oversight of business ethics. Today we see the case of the hedge fund owner who bought the patent of an AIDS drug and announces that he will put the price up by 5000% over night! Nothing to stop him because it is not illegal. The US I know but so many of our guys see US business practice as the cutting edge to emulate.

Dick
 
#17 ·
From what I understand it is for the emissions contraventions of cars sold that they are being fined for. Not for doing anything illegal.
Dick
Dick, if you read the NOV (I posted the link to it earlier), you will have it straight from the horses mouth rather than various media take on it. The NOV is the official notice from the Feds to VW.
You will then see that use of a "defeat device" is specifically banned & thus illegal. The EPA regard the software that VW have used as a "defeat device". It was evidently designed to ensure that vehicles passed the annual emissions test & worked very well.
Make no mistake, VW are in all sorts of trouble here. They're facing criminal prosecution & massive fines as well as the class action from aggrieved owners.
 
#18 ·
I bet Boeing wish they had used that software on the Dreamliner.
That would have been OK though.

Ray.
 
#19 ·
Unfortunately this saga will revitalise the discussions about diesel being a dirty fuel, giving justification/excuse to the government for an increase diesel fuel duty and road tax.

All of course in the interests of public health......yeah right >:)

I also read that this alleged deceitful act by VW would even "make a banker blush" but I doubt it. :grin2:

Terry
 
#20 ·
Right Terry.
Has the 'Congestion Charge' lowered congestion.?
Has the LEZ payments lowered pollution.?
Has the Carbon Tax cleaned up our air.?

Yeah.
Ray.
 
#23 ·
There are always "claims" that diesel emissions "kill thousands" every year, but not one single death can be blamed SOLELY on diesel emissions as it just isn't possible to prove exactly where the emissions came from. NOX comes from all sorts of sources even (whisper it) petrol engines.

However I am able to supply the name of someone killed solely (and provenly so) by petrol engine emissions - a friend of mine who committed suicide when his wife denied him access to his children.

There is a hidden agenda here and it is being forced through by people who do not like diesel.
 
#26 ·
However I am able to supply the name of someone killed solely (and provenly so) by petrol engine emissions - a friend of mine who committed suicide when his wife denied him access to his children.

.
+1 and one of the reasons I became a Samaritan...

ray.
 
  • Like
Reactions: raynipper
#24 ·
Question.


Who devised and patented the software :wink2:


tony
 
#25 ·
So how easy was it for VW to fool the EPA in the USA and California Air Resources Board for so long

Well when you actually look at what is involved in their Diesel emission test

http://www.smogcheck.ca.gov/pdf/DieselFlyer_final.3.pdf

See if the MIL is on?
Visual inspection of emission components?
Visual smoke test?

So the whole test is down to a human just giving a visual inspection

Hence the initial test to let the vehicles being sold in the US is stringent (using dodgy software) after that they are home and dry

That is until some automotive nerd in a University decides to do a real world test with some proper emission equipment.......and blows a gaping hole in their own emission testing practices and VW

At least in the UK we do a test to check at least one of the harmful particulate components, but not the VERY harmful NOx

So in real terms I cannot see anything being done about affected vehicles in the UK

Lets face it, Diesel is not a clean fuel no matter how much software you throw at it or bolt on emission devices

From what Iv'e read I don't believe VW will be able to fix the problem with updated software, just have to put up with the pollution till the end of their life......reducing the NOx emissions to such a low level is just going to strangle performance

Dill
 
#30 ·
#31 ·
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top