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post #21 of 37 (permalink) Old 21-05-2014, 09:32 Thread Starter
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ray, that happens in remote or country areas here in IOM, I've experienced it in Wales and Scotland and Spain and Bulgaria and Macedonia. But generally not on freeways, dual carriageways and motorways...
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post #22 of 37 (permalink) Old 21-05-2014, 10:06
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freeways, dual carriageways and motorways...

I didn't realise you had any of those on the IOM
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post #23 of 37 (permalink) Old 21-05-2014, 10:28
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Where it would help is being able to check the validity of a foreign licence at the roadside.
For example a foreign driver gets stopped in the UK and produces his licence which seems to be in order but at the moment there is no easy way to check this.
It transpires the driver was banned back at home but failed to surrender his licence claiming it was lost and came to work in the UK.
He would obviously be driving without a licence but not while being banned.
If convictions were shared then the officer at the roadside would be able to seize his vehicle and deal with the offences instead of letting a potentially dangerous and uninsured driver continue on his way.
I don't believe points should be shared unless as already mentioned offences are aligned.
At the moment in the UK if a foreign licence holder is convicted of say excess alcohol then a UK licence is automatically issued to them in order to record the ban, a very clumsy process.
James
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post #24 of 37 (permalink) Old 21-05-2014, 11:08
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thieawin

I was going to raise the point about reporting drink driving at levels which is an offence in one country but not in another, but I thought I was been a 'picky' lawyer, so I am pleased to be in good company

These things do happen and I wonder whether they were considered by the legislators or not even thought about for consideration.

From my own personal perspective it is interesting that governments will accept reporting offences even when the laws are incompatible but will not accept other countries' 'MOT' on the basis that the tests are 'not compatible. I do understand that the Courts in UK can ignore offences which do not coincide with UK law - then why write into the legislation that offences based on incompatible laws should be reported?. The two approaches seem to be, shall we say, 'incompatible''')

It will be interesting to find out how long it takes for every EU country to establish systems to report to every other EU country(Factorial 28 - 28!) and how many contracts to IT consultants have to be issued before the system is 100% operational. Did the EU do the calculations of the cost ? and if so can we find the figures and I wonder by how much those estimates will be wrong in reality? Anyone want to make a book?

Geoff
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post #25 of 37 (permalink) Old 21-05-2014, 11:26
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Hey up.

We are not naughty boys when we go abroad, I think we drive more responsibly than we do in our own country, after all who can be arsed with a load of crap when you are on your jolly's, and any police man will probably not speak your language and you not theirs and all the hassle with it all..

I know I am more careful when abroad than my usual perfect self.

ray.

Just watching a shifty looking geezer in the library searching intently through the 'S' section of the dictionary, he's stopped now.

I think he's up to something. . .. . . ray......
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post #26 of 37 (permalink) Old 21-05-2014, 11:48 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JP
Where it would help is being able to check the validity of a foreign licence at the roadside.
For example a foreign driver gets stopped in the UK and produces his licence which seems to be in order but at the moment there is no easy way to check this.
It transpires the driver was banned back at home but failed to surrender his licence claiming it was lost and came to work in the UK.
He would obviously be driving without a licence but not while being banned.
If convictions were shared then the officer at the roadside would be able to seize his vehicle and deal with the offences instead of letting a potentially dangerous and uninsured driver continue on his way.
I don't believe points should be shared unless as already mentioned offences are aligned.
At the moment in the UK if a foreign licence holder is convicted of say excess alcohol then a UK licence is automatically issued to them in order to record the ban, a very clumsy process.
James
Not quite right. He's issued with a driver number and driving record is created, but a licence isn't physically issued, and his conviction is then marked on his record
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post #27 of 37 (permalink) Old 21-05-2014, 11:57 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicholsong
thieawin

I was going to raise the point about reporting drink driving at levels which is an offence in one country but not in another, but I thought I was been a 'picky' lawyer, so I am pleased to be in good company

These things do happen and I wonder whether they were considered by the legislators or not even thought about for consideration.

From my own personal perspective it is interesting that governments will accept reporting offences even when the laws are incompatible but will not accept other countries' 'MOT' on the basis that the tests are 'not compatible. I do understand that the Courts in UK can ignore offences which do not coincide with UK law - then why write into the legislation that offences based on incompatible laws should be reported?. The two approaches seem to be, shall we say, 'incompatible''')

It will be interesting to find out how long it takes for every EU country to establish systems to report to every other EU country(Factorial 28 - 28!) and how many contracts to IT consultants have to be issued before the system is 100% operational. Did the EU do the calculations of the cost ? and if so can we find the figures and I wonder by how much those estimates will be wrong in reality? Anyone want to make a book?

Geoff
I think you are over thinking and complicating. Its an access and notification system. Its running, and has been for sometime. through most of Europe,

So I have a licence from Country A and am driving and commit an offence in Country B. Country B will be able to access the Driver records of Country A, either to identify who I am to send on the fine, or check my record. That's just an access code or password, no big IT issues. I am then convicted and sentenced, As Country B enters that into its data base it informs Country A, presumably there will be a dedicated clerk and e-mail address for such notifications - although what they do with the info is moot.

The UK and Ireland have been negotiating and trying to sort out cross border recognition and reciprocity of endorsements, penalty points and disqualifications for 20+ years and even with similar systems based on a common source, common law principles and a, mainly, common language, they haven't managed it yet.

Its one of the reasons I maintain an IOM and an Irish licence, just in case
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post #28 of 37 (permalink) Old 21-05-2014, 11:59
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Yes of course you are quite right I just didn't go into the actual details, it is a notional license and any points are transferred to a real one if they ever apply for a UK license.
James
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post #29 of 37 (permalink) Old 21-05-2014, 12:08
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Jp

On the topic of points, as you said, it needs alignment of offences ( 2075?) before sharing should be considered but it would require some countries changing from adding points(e.g. UK) or from deducting points from a credit(France?). I am not even sure all countries use 12 points as the base.

I get the impression that the whole thing is a 'good idea' in principle but might fail in the execution - nothing could possibly go wrong, go wrong , go wrong......Because the Eurocrats have spoken''

Geoff
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post #30 of 37 (permalink) Old 21-05-2014, 12:16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicholsong
Jp

On the topic of points, as you said, it needs alignment of offences ( 2075?) before sharing should be considered but it would require some countries changing from adding points(e.g. UK) or from deducting points from a credit(France?). I am not even sure all countries use 12 points as the base.

I get the impression that the whole thing is a 'good idea' in principle but might fail in the execution - nothing could possibly go wrong, go wrong , go wrong......Because the Eurocrats have spoken''

Geoff
Not a worry for most of us as I doubt we will be driving by the time they align the systems although sharing license details should be easy to do and make the job for the police officer on the street a lot easier.

I am sure it is the same abroad but I know many officers in the UK shy away from foreign drivers and before translators on the telephone were available (at great cost) I was often called to try and communicate with french drivers but usually this was just for directions.


James
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