Ducato/Boxer transmission and reversing problems - Motorhome Forums, Motorhome Discussion, Motorhome Chat

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post #1 of 2756 (permalink) Old 09-04-2008, 11:25 PM Thread Starter
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Ducato/Boxer transmission and reversing problems

I know many of you have been following the epic tussle I have started with Fiat over the juddering issue, and that there are dissenting voices here, so I thought it time to state the facts as they stand with regard to the information I have collected.
There are now 94 owners who are very very concerned about the juddering in the transmission when the clutch is released in reverse gear up hill. Most of these are the 6 speed variants.
4 gearboxes have failed whilst reversing up fairly steep hills - though one respondent wasn't sure how steep the hill was, as it was on grass.
7 clutches have failed whilst reversing up hills.
It must be remembered that these are well loved vehicles driven by responsible folk and all are low mileage nearly new 'vans.
It would help all of us in the long run if we can put pressure on Fiat and Peugeot to sort this problem out, but despite many appeals through official and unofficial channels they feel unable to do so, and will make no official response.
The figures I have managed to collect are obviously the tip of the iceberg, so I'm asking for the users of this forum to assist in putting pressure on the two manufacturers by whatever means they have available.
We have obviously been through all the legal options and some of the owners are pursuing this through the courts, but that option only deals with an individual vehicle through a single dealer.
All helpful suggestions will be considered.

andystothert@blueyonder.co.uk
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post #2 of 2756 (permalink) Old 10-04-2008, 08:21 AM
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Welcome

Hi Andy.
Welcome to motorhome facts
As you no doubt know many members on here have been fighting their own battles with Fiat & Peugeot.
We also have those who will proclaim it is a "storm in a teacup".
I hope you join us when your 5 free posts run out, we are a nice group & I hope you don't get a hard time, but I hope even more that you get answers from the manufacturers.
Regards Catherine
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post #3 of 2756 (permalink) Old 10-04-2008, 08:59 AM
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Andy,

Good luck in your quest, and as a (albeit minor) judder sufferer myself I look forward to hearing of any progress you make. Fingers crossed this thread makes good progress and does not deteriorate into a string of emotive and "end of the world forecasting of future resale values" posts.

In the meantime, I shall enjoy to use the motorhome as much as I possibly can and not get too caught up in the problems of what is overall a superb base vehicle.

Regards,
Steve
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post #4 of 2756 (permalink) Old 10-04-2008, 09:08 AM
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Welcome to MHF Andy. Glad you have "seen the light" in joining the best Forum for Motorhomers

I echo the comments made above.

We are fortunate in having quite a few Dealers and Converters as members of MHF and who make regular contributions. These include the Swift Group, which must be one of Fiat's biggest customers.

Swift have brought up the subject of the judder with Fiat, anjd are awaiting a reply. They (Swift) have promised to let us know the outcome. So we now have a Converter on the case.

Im Hotel bin ich Gast; im Wohnmobil darheim
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post #5 of 2756 (permalink) Old 10-04-2008, 09:27 AM
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Fiat Ducato X250 problems

Buon giorno Andy and may I add my welcome to MHF.
Firstly, I don't own a Ducato X250, but the 2.8 JTD, and have no issues with Fiat. However, I have been intrigued by the discussions on this forum and MMM about water ingress to the engine bay/reverse judder problems with the new Ducato.

I am also a member of an Italian motorhome forum, and have been trying to find out if the many hundreds of X250 owners in Italy have come up with similar problems. Will let everybody know the outcome of my enquiry in due course.
saluti,
eddied
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post #6 of 2756 (permalink) Old 10-04-2008, 08:03 PM Thread Starter
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For those who can make any sense of it the Italian website discussing this affair is:
www.acpasion.net/foro
And the man driving it is Roberto Bordi - email brdrob@yahooo.it

He has interesting tales to tell I'm sure, especially about failed clutches on nearly new motorhomes which Fiat won't pay for as they claim it is misuse rather than a fault.
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post #7 of 2756 (permalink) Old 10-04-2008, 09:50 PM
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Juddering ?

Hi.
I have today been contacted by a person who wishes me to pass on the following news.
.................................................. .................................................. .....

I contacted Peugeot Customer Care today about the recalls on my van, whilst on the phone I took the chance to ask about juddergate.
The person said that they (Peugeot) had been testing commercial vans and they do not judder, however they can induce judder in motorhomes.

Thier answer is that although the conversion is within the chassis weight limit they are end heavy, thus inducing judder.

They are laying the blame fair and square on the manufacturers. So Swift, Explorer, Hymer, Autocruise, Autotrail, Chausson etc etc they are effectively saying it is all your fault.

The person also said it is only the British complaining.

Mentioned as well that currently there is a lot of political wrangling going on between Fiat/Peugeot/Citroen about scuttle problems.

.................................................. .................................................. ......
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post #8 of 2756 (permalink) Old 10-04-2008, 10:26 PM
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Sounds similar to what Fiat said on a website I saw mentioned on OAL.
Bit bizarre if previous vans didn't do this. Maybe someone with an older style not this new one could try and reverse theirs as a comparison. Although maybe this has already been done????????
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post #9 of 2756 (permalink) Old 10-04-2008, 11:21 PM Thread Starter
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Dealing with the motorhomes only thing - this is absolute tosh. We hired a bog standard empty 6 speed Fiat van and it juddered. Two of the complaining 'judderers' in our list have ordinary vans.
Our 'motorhome' is a medium wheel base panel van with a very lightweight conversion (not even a water heater) and it judders for Italy, and wrecked the gearbox.

The other point - old v new - our last camper was a 2003 2.2 litre MWB Relay conversion and it would reverse up the side of a house almost.
After harrassing Fiat something rotten for nearly twelve months now I've never heard a reliable Fiat source blame it on the motorhome manufacturers, and indeed Fiat have full time employees working in the big manufacturers factories liaising with staff from the likes of Swift and Auto-Trail.
These are red herrings.
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post #10 of 2756 (permalink) Old 11-04-2008, 10:19 AM
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Red Herring...no! Food for thought & interesting..yes!

Hi Andy,
I believe its a case of "headless chickens" at Peugeot,
Who have long been waiting for the Fiat dog to allow the Peugeot tail to wag
It is something I have been asked to relay by someone who has been told this and it is not a malicious posting.
Only point here is these companies continue to tell everybody different things & if one of us gets lucky some employee or other slips up tells us something useful!!
Better still maybe there is a "whistleblower" somewhere and these companies can be made to act decently for the 1st time in over a year (just my opinion)
I think we all want the same thing but it is evident everyone has a different take on how to achieve it.
It is a fine line between getting results and devaluing our motorhomes!
One that I have struggled to get right over the 9 or so months that I have been dealing with this Sham.
Regards Catherine.
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